Dr. Robert Lufkin on The Truth About Metabolic Health, Why Western Medicine is Failing and How to Take Control of Your Health
Western medicine has revolutionized healthcare, saving lives through groundbreaking surgeries, medications, and technological advancements. However, when it comes to chronic diseases—obesity, diabetes, and heart disease—the system is failing millions of people.
Dr. Robert Lufkin, a physician, medical school professor, and longevity expert, spent decades teaching medical students the conventional wisdom of Western medicine. But after experiencing his own health challenges and diving deeper into research, he realized that much of what he had been taught—and what he had taught others—was flawed.
In this conversation, Dr. Lufkin sheds light on the metabolic health crisis, common myths surrounding nutrition and cholesterol, and how individuals can take control of their health through lifestyle changes.
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Why Western Medicine Fails at Treating Chronic Disease
Western medicine is highly effective in acute care. If you suffer a traumatic injury or require emergency surgery, the healthcare system provides life-saving interventions. However, the approach is mainly reactive rather than preventative regarding chronic conditions.
Most doctors focus on treating symptoms rather than addressing root causes.
Medications often manage disease rather than reverse it.
Medical schools provide minimal education on nutrition and lifestyle interventions.
Financial incentives tend to favor pharmaceuticals over prevention.
Dr. Lufkin explains that chronic diseases are increasing at an unprecedented rate. Yet, the medical industry continues to rely on outdated strategies—primarily pharmaceuticals and surgical interventions—rather than focusing on the root cause: metabolic dysfunction.
“The biggest medical breakthrough of our time won’t come from a new drug—it’s realizing that lifestyle is more powerful than medication.” – Dr. Robert Lufkin
What is Metabolic Health, and Why Does It Matter?
Metabolic health refers to how well the body processes energy. It affects nearly every aspect of well-being, from disease risk to cognitive function and overall vitality.
Unfortunately, research suggests that 80–90% of U.S. adults have some level of metabolic dysfunction.
Key Indicators of Poor Metabolic Health:
Excess abdominal fat
High blood sugar levels
Elevated triglycerides and low HDL cholesterol
High blood pressure
Many people assume they are metabolically healthy simply because they do not have diabetes or heart disease. However, these conditions often develop over decades, long before symptoms appear.
Dr. Lufkin emphasizes that insulin resistance is a common denominator linking many chronic diseases, including obesity, diabetes, cardiovascular disease, Alzheimer’s, and even some mental health disorders.
The Lies We’ve Been Told About Diet, Weight Loss, and Cholesterol
One of the most pervasive myths in mainstream health advice is that weight loss is simply a matter of "calories in, calories out."
Why “Eat Less, Move More” is a Flawed Strategy:
Exercise alone is not an effective weight-loss tool. While physical activity has many health benefits, it does not compensate for a poor diet.
Not all calories are created equal. A calorie from refined carbohydrates affects the body differently than a calorie from protein or healthy fats.
Insulin plays a critical role in fat storage. Diets high in refined carbohydrates cause insulin spikes, increasing fat accumulation and hunger cravings.
The Role of Processed Carbs and Seed Oils
Dr. Lufkin identifies two major dietary culprits behind the metabolic health crisis:
Refined carbohydrates (sugar, flour, processed grains)
Industrial seed oils (canola, soybean, corn oil), which are found in most processed and fast foods
These ingredients contribute to chronic inflammation, insulin resistance, and poor metabolic function. Shockingly, major health organizations still promote many of these same foods, influenced by corporate interests rather than science.
“Most people who show up in the ER with a heart attack have normal cholesterol. We’ve been chasing the wrong culprit.” – Dr. Robert Lufkin
For decades, cholesterol was blamed for heart disease, leading to the widespread use of statin medications. However, new research suggests that cholesterol alone is not a reliable predictor of heart attacks. Instead, metabolic dysfunction and systemic inflammation play a much more significant role.
Despite this, statins—one of the most profitable drug classes in history—remain a primary treatment for cardiovascular disease, even though their impact on overall mortality is minimal.
How to Take Control of Your Metabolic Health
Dr. Lufkin outlines a straightforward approach to improving metabolic health and preventing chronic disease:
1. Prioritize Nutrient-Dense, Low-Inflammation Foods
Avoid refined sugars, processed grains, and industrial seed oils.
Focus on high-quality proteins, healthy fats, and whole, unprocessed foods.
Be mindful of hidden sources of inflammation, even in so-called "healthy" foods.
2. Optimize Meal Timing (Intermittent Fasting)
Stop snacking between meals to allow insulin levels to stabilize.
Consider intermittent fasting to improve metabolic flexibility.
Avoid late-night eating, which can disrupt digestion and metabolic function.
3. Manage Stress and Improve Sleep Quality
Chronic stress contributes to insulin resistance and weight gain.
Prioritizing deep, restorative sleep is essential for metabolic repair.
4. Move Regularly (But Not Just for Weight Loss)
Strength training, walking, and mobility exercises improve overall metabolic health.
Exercise should be viewed as a tool for longevity and well-being, not just weight loss.
The Future of Longevity and Anti-Aging Science
Dr. Lufkin also discusses emerging longevity research and its connection to metabolic health. He is particularly excited about:
Rapamycin, a drug that has shown promise in extending lifespan by influencing key metabolic pathways.
Gene therapy and epigenetic reprogramming, could potentially reverse aspects of cellular aging.
Regenerative medicine, including stem cell therapies, aims to restore function and extend health span.
While these breakthroughs are promising, Dr. Lufkin emphasizes that metabolic health remains the foundation of longevity. No drug or therapy will be as effective as maintaining a healthy lifestyle.
Final Thoughts: Why This Matters Now More Than Ever
The healthcare system is beginning to recognize the importance of metabolic health, but meaningful change takes time. In the meantime, individuals have the power to take control of their own well-being.
Key Takeaway:
The choices made today—regarding diet, movement, sleep, and stress management—will determine long-term health outcomes far more than any medication or medical intervention.
— Connect with Dr. Robert Lufkin —
Website: RobertLufkinMD.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/robertlufkinmd/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/robertlufkinmd
Book + Free Sample Chapter: [Lies I Taught in Medical School: How Conventional Medicine Is Making You Sicker and What You Can Do to Save Your Own Life] — https://www.robertlufkinmd.com/lies/
Transcript
Julian Hayes II
(0:03) Welcome to another episode of Executive Health & Life. (0:06) I'm your host, Julian Hayes II. (0:07) Dr. Robert Lufkin, thank you so much for joining me. (0:10) I'm looking forward to this conversation. (0:12) I always have to start off a little differently, and so I'm curious, during your time being a medical school professor, what was some of your favorite aspects about that?
Dr. Robert Lufkin
(0:23) Wow, that's a great question, Julian. (0:27) First of all, being a medical school professor, I've been doing that essentially my whole career, and last time I checked, I still have my job. (0:38) But it's a wonderful experience, because as a physician, it allows me to practice medicine, so I can actually see patients and take care of them.
(0:50) And then secondly, I get to do research. (0:53) Over the years, my lab has received literally millions of dollars in grants from drug companies, device makers, and the government, all of which I'll be critical of in the next hour. (1:09) To be clear, I've received many grants from them and written literally hundreds of peer-reviewed scientific papers that have been published and textbooks and all that, and that was super fun.
(1:22) And the third part of being a professor is actually teaching and interacting with medical students and other doctors in training or other healthcare professionals, and oftentimes it's not while I was supposed to be teaching, oftentimes it's not I'd be learning from them by their questions they ask and by their insightful comments. (1:43) So that's probably the best part of it, just interacting with the new people, the young minds that are entering the space without the preconceived notions that many of us have, sort of that beginner's mind that they talk about in Zen, where people go and they ask the obvious questions that nobody else asks, you know?
Julian Hayes II
(2:05) Absolutely. (2:07) And I was looking forward also to this conversation, because listeners already know I had a brief flirtation with medical school after one year. (2:14) And and just even during that time, a lot of ideas popped up in my head of how we can make the overall curriculum better.
(2:23) So I'm curious with you, if someone said that you can rewrite the curriculum for medical schools globally, what three subjects or things off the top of your head would you include and make mandatory that you think will make better physicians?
Dr. Robert Lufkin
(2:38) Yeah. (2:40) First of all, I'm a fan of Western medicine. (2:45) And I'm part of Western medicine.
(2:48) I'm part of the problem, really, by being there. (2:51) And, you know, and I think, you know, looking back in the 20th century, Western medicine transformed the lives of pretty much everybody in the world and made us all, made life better for people, largely through eliminating infectious diseases and public health measures. (3:08) But it was really, you know, a golden age for medicine when pills and surgeries were developed that just made our lives so much better.
(3:19) And even today, you know, a quarter of the way into the 21st century, if I get hit by a car, I'm going to want Western medicine to, you know, give me a blood transfusion and maybe, you know, remove my spleen if it's ruptured and this kind of thing. (3:36) So for acute management of problems, Western medicine, you know, has no equal worldwide. (3:41) But the problem is, and the problem that I talk about in the book is that in the 21st century, we're now facing a literal tsunami of diseases that while they were around in the 20th century, they're nowhere near the numbers today.
(4:02) These are so-called chronic diseases. (4:04) And they're now literally in biblical numbers that were never before seen in the history of the human race. (4:15) And these diseases, and it's a seemingly heterogeneous group of diseases, all the way from obesity to diabetes, hypertension, cardiovascular disease, stroke, cancer, Alzheimer's disease, even mental illness, they're all just expanding incredibly.
(4:32) And the problem is, when Western medicine takes the same pills and surgeries that were so effective in the 20th century, that same strategy, just, you know, just treat it. (4:42) They work for in many cases, they can be lifesaving. (4:48) But oftentimes, they only treat the symptoms.
(4:52) In other words, they may save the life acutely. (4:55) But underneath, the disease continues to progress. (5:00) And what does that mean?
(5:02) It means somehow we're missing the root cause, the common mechanism. (5:06) And what I think the common mechanism is based on, on lifestyle, and, and it's arguably the most powerful medicine that most of us will ever, will ever take. (5:19) And, and it can do things that the pills and surgery, at least at this point can't do, because all the diseases I mentioned, all the chronic diseases, I would, I would like to submit and make the argument for that they're based on common metabolic abnormalities, common disease drivers, things like insulin resistance, inflammation, oxidation, these things that that really drive all these diseases.
(5:45) And it's an interesting thing. (5:46) So that means that the same lifestyle approach that will help me lose weight will also improve my chances for all to decrease Alzheimer's disease or all these other things. (5:55) And so it's, it's really fascinating.
(5:58) So you know, long answer for short question, but to your question, I think I would, I would really focus on the value of lifestyle, that that nutrition, you know, plays a role. (6:12) You mentioned briefly, we didn't get a lot of nutrition in medical school, and sadly, we still don't um, nutrition, but, but how lifestyle can be transformative. (6:22) And then what, just the third thing, the final thought would be that prevention is key, you know, that these, those chronic diseases I mentioned, don't start when the doctor diagnoses them.
(6:35) They start years to decades beforehand. (6:37) So we need to start these lifestyle changes before we get diagnosed, if we want the maximum effect.
Julian Hayes II
(6:46) Yeah, and I'm going to come back to that notion about chronic diseases, lying dormant for years, and kind of the disconnect to communicate that with people that a lot of times, you might feel fine in this moment, but it doesn't necessarily mean internally that everything is fine. (7:02) But to also piggyback on what you said about Western medicine, I'm actually a fan of it too. (7:06) But there's nuances.
(7:07) I Western medicine gave me so many extra years with my father because of dialysis and a bunch of other issues. (7:15) And if this was maybe even 30 years ago, I wouldn't have got all those extra years. (7:19) So in that situation, in that instance, I'm eternally grateful for Western medicine.
(7:24) And, you know, so that's, there's always caveats and nuances with that. (7:27) And, and I think we can go ahead and start diving into some of the various health lives that you mentioned in the book. (7:32) And I think the first great place to start is metabolism and metabolic health.
(7:38) And when someone comes to you and they say, what is being metabolic healthy look like to you? (7:45) How would you classify that to them?
Dr. Robert Lufkin
(7:47) Yeah, it's a great question. (7:48) That's particularly relevant now today, because there have been several studies that have analyzed the metabolic health of adults in America. (8:01) And they're coming up with just incredible numbers that 80 to 90% of adults have at least one symptom or sign of metabolic dysfunction.
(8:14) And there, there are about five things that are that are markers for these that we can look at. (8:19) To begin with, they were described by Gerald Raven at Stanford University, when he described something he called syndrome X or metabolic syndrome, which is really insulin resistance, and you know, inflammation, but it's things like your abdominal, your waist size, literally, do you have extra inches around your waist? (8:40) And today, of course, we know most, most adults in the US are either overweight or obese.
(8:47) So the answer would be yes for that. (8:49) The other thing is blood pressure. (8:51) Today, most adults, at least have hypertension or be are being treated for hypertension, it's close to 50% or over 50%.
(9:00) So that's another marker. (9:02) And then there's some some blood markers, things like glucose, which measure our, our response to glucose, our glucose metabolism, really, and insulin resistance, and then other things like HDL, which is the good kind of cholesterol, or triglyceride, which is a another blood marker, which is associated with cardiac cardiovascular disease, but it's also strongly associated with metabolic disease. (9:32) If we look at these, these markers, most people, the vast majority of people will have at least one of these is abnormal.
Julian Hayes II
(9:42) And do you see also when it comes to that, when you combine A1C insulin, the fasting glucose, and you mentioned the triglycerides, do you think that's a complete picture? (9:54) Or are there some other markers beyond that, that also ties into it? (9:57) Because what I'm thinking of is also fatty liver, and how that's rising as well.
(10:02) And a lot of that is connected to the metabolic health as well.
Dr. Robert Lufkin
(10:05) Yeah, and fatty liver, I mean, the disease, the chronic disease list I gave was a long list, but still, it's short, because I didn't mention sleep apnea, I didn't mention polycystic ovary disease, I didn't mention inflammatory bowel disease, you know, I didn't mention fatty liver. (10:22) And these are all also linked at this basic metabolic level, and there are manifestations of them. (10:29) So for sure, these markers are just the beginnings.
(10:35) And as we talk about it in the book, it's not enough just to, you know, fix the lifestyle. (10:45) In some cases, it may be a deficiency, you know, it might be something like vitamin D, it might be some other hormone that we're deficient in, there may be other abnormalities that are driving these metabolic dysfunctions. (10:56) So it's not always just necessarily our diet, or our sleep, or our exercise or our stress.
(11:04) But those, those are the number one drivers that we can all control every day, because we control our lifestyle.
Julian Hayes II
(11:12) And, and piggybacking on that some of the other issues that I've seen is also now the information that people are getting in terms of what are the recommendations given out by what is USDA, and then food pyramids and all sorts of things. (11:27) And those are not exactly metabolic friendly diets to most people, because they're way too sedentary to be able to handle that type of recommendations as being given to them.
Dr. Robert Lufkin
(11:36) Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's a great point, our, our supposedly trusted medical institutions are, you know, I don't wanna say hopelessly, but they're, they're seriously corrupted by both conscious, unconscious, pernicious financial and other incentives that that drive them to say things that may not be in our best interest or lead to our best health. (12:03) You mentioned the food pyramid, which is put out periodically by the USDA. (12:08) It's both it's, it's the recommendations of what kind of food we've all seen it, you know, it's a pyramid like this, you're supposed to eat the bottom line, most of those, and then as you go up the pyramid, you're eating fewer and fewer of those.
(12:20) Well, Nina Teicholz, recently published a paper showing that the most recent USDA committee writing the food recommendations for the food pyramid, 90% of the people had conflicts with, with big food or junk food makers, basically. (12:37) And, and, well, what's the result of that, the, the, the, the food pyramid emphasizes junk food, you look at the bottom row, and it's all cereals, grains, and baked goods, and basically junk food that, that drives our metabolic, metabolic illness. (12:57) And you say, well, who cares about the food pyramid?
(13:00) Well, the food pyramid drives it, it's, it's the guideposts for what our kids are fed at school. (13:07) It's what is served in hospitals. (13:10) It's, it's what our, our prison prisoners are fed, what our military, what our veterans are fed, and indeed, all around the world, people follow the food pyramid as, as a trusted source of information.
(13:23) Similarly, you know, another one, American Heart Association, the sort of the leading institution for heart disease, cardiovascular disease. (13:32) Well, they were famously funded in the 1950s by a grant from Procter and Gamble, who's the maker of one of the original junk seed oils called Crisco. (13:43) And, and these oils are very pro-inflammatory.
(13:48) And while they do slightly lower the LDL, their untoward effects, in my opinion, by far outweigh that. (13:56) And today, we have the American Heart Association recommending on their website that people that use corn oil, which is another junk seed oil, which drives inflammation and oxidation, and they say it's heart healthy, and they will actually sell those labels to companies, you know, like junk food cereals have them on, and they say heart healthy, lower your cholesterol, this sort of thing. (14:22) It goes on and on.
(14:24) The American Diabetic Association is similarly, in my opinion, corrupted by these influences, to the point that they give information that I believe is not in the best interest of the patients. (14:35) American Dietetic Association also has a very storied past with influences that drive it not to give the best recommendations to its followers. (14:49) I mean, my mom was a dietitian.
(14:51) I know. (14:52) I was raised in that environment. (14:55) She would go to dietitian conferences, and they would be sponsored by Coca-Cola and McDonald's.
(15:00) I mean, go figure.
Julian Hayes II
(15:02) Yeah. (15:02) Oh, man. (15:04) I've had to really practice my patients at times when it came to dealing with different hospital dietitians and recommendations given to family members.
(15:14) It's been a real test of my patients. (15:16) I definitely remember these moments. (15:19) But before we go back to that, there's something that comes to the top of my mind.
(15:23) There's two things. (15:24) The first thing is, is where was this exact moment where you're kind of looking at the whole medical landscape differently? (15:33) And what did these lenses start to reveal themselves?
(15:37) It's almost like seeing a whole new world.
Dr. Robert Lufkin
(15:40) For me, well, yeah, again, great question. (15:42) I was, full disclosure, I was minding my own business being a medical school professor for many, many years, just doing my thing, like I talked about before, minding my own business, really. (15:56) And I'd like to say, I came upon this because I wanted to make the world a better place.
(16:01) Well, no, not really. (16:02) I was forced into this when I came down with four of these chronic diseases myself. (16:07) So I went to my doctors, and they prescribed prescription medicines for them, the pills to take care of them.
(16:17) And I asked them, what about lifestyle? (16:23) Excuse me. (16:24) Does lifestyle work?
(16:25) And they said, nah, not really. (16:27) It doesn't work. (16:28) You're going to be on these pills for the rest of your life, so get used to it.
(16:31) So at that point, it forced me to go back to the research and realize that many things that I believed and that my colleagues believed were incorrect. (16:44) And there's been a revolution in our understanding and knowledge. (16:47) And excuse me, again, it's not COVID, I promise.
(16:55) There's been a revolution in our knowledge about how these diseases were all linked and the things we talked about, how lifestyle at the root does make a difference. (17:05) And long story short, I began changing my own lifestyle. (17:10) And lo and behold, I went back to my doctors, and they couldn't believe it.
(17:15) They thought the labs were broken. (17:16) And basically, I got off all four medications. (17:20) And through lifestyle, I was able to reverse those chronic diseases that I had.
(17:26) And now, really, I made it my mission in my life to help other people take back their health and not make the same mistakes that I did and hopefully understand the power of lifestyle and how these chronic diseases can be reversed or put off.
Julian Hayes II
(17:46) Now, did those doctors, after you made your changes, are they now prescribing lifestyle to more of their patients now and your surrounding people? (17:56) That's all this transformation from you?
Dr. Robert Lufkin
(17:58) You know, I wish I could say, yeah, everybody changed. (18:04) But no, I mean, it's, you know, n of one doesn't make it. (18:08) But let me be clear.
(18:11) In the book, it's not just about me and my experience. (18:14) I'm a scientist like anybody. (18:16) And so I'm, these are not my ideas.
(18:19) I'm quoting, basically, randomized controlled studies, the gold standard about how lifestyle literally can reverse type two diabetes in the majority of patients and on and on each of these diseases, how lifestyle can have a significant effect on these and telling people that lifestyle doesn't matter and just take the pills, I think is problematic. (18:45) It wouldn't be so bad if the pills worked, you know, and actually, you can either do lifestyle or the pills. (18:51) But no, the pills, don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating anyone not to follow their doctor's orders or to stop taking any prescription medicines.
(19:01) But in in many cases, the pills will help with the symptoms and help people maybe feel better and everything. (19:09) But in many cases, they don't do anything to reverse the chronic progressive nature of these of these chronic diseases, which keep getting worse and worse and worse, which when you use lifestyle lifestyle, instead of the pills, in many, if not the majority of the cases, you can actually slow down or even reverse these diseases with them. (19:33) So it's it's not really an either or situation.
Julian Hayes II
(19:37) Yeah, one of the things you mentioned in the book, and we'll talk about this a little more is when it comes to obesity. (19:43) And a lot of times people are just thinking about, it's just about calories, calories in calories, he's out, eat less and move more, but they're missing the picture when it comes to hormones, and have how big of a deal that is. (19:57) And so I would love to expand on that a little bit.
Dr. Robert Lufkin
(20:00) Yeah, it's a great point. (20:01) I mean, the advice that that has been given to people battling overweight or obesity for years, and sadly, it's still the advice given by our trusted medical institutions, including, you know, medical schools and expert in the area is, if you want to lose weight, just exercise more and eat less. (20:23) And we can see that clearly is not working.
(20:27) And let's, let's, let's unpack that a little bit. (20:29) Well, exercise more to lose weight doesn't really work. (20:33) I mean, exercise has many, many, many health benefits.
(20:37) I'm not recommending anyone not exercise. (20:40) But sadly, weight loss is not one of them. (20:43) Because when we exercise, we, we, we work up an appetite, we stimulate, simulate our appetite, and it makes us want to eat more.
(20:52) Furthermore, you know, if I have that muffin at Starbucks, it's 500 calories, I've got to, I've got to exercise a lot to burn off 500 calories. (21:01) So the math doesn't really doesn't really work out. (21:05) So then the second thing is, well, just eat less.
(21:08) Well, obviously, of course, if you eat less, you'll, you'll weigh less, but it's more nuanced than that. (21:16) Eating less is the assumption that all calories are equal, that a calorie is just a calorie. (21:22) And I believe that's wrong also, because we know that, that our body, specifically the hormone that responds to food called insulin is the hormone that tells our body to store fat.
(21:36) Of the three types of food that we can eat, fat and protein, which are required for life, and if we don't eat those, we die. (21:44) And, and carbohydrates, which are not required for life, the carbohydrates are the ones that maximally stimulate insulin and cause us to store fat. (21:53) So if I eat a diet that's high in fat and protein, I don't gain much weight, because I'm not stimulating the insulin.
(22:00) If I eat a diet that's high in carbohydrates, I'm telling my body to store fat all the time, all the time. (22:06) I mean, as an example, 100 calories of carbohydrates, which is, you know, sugar, starches, flour, that kind of thing, like 100 calories worth of potato chips, I eat those, and it's going to have a very different effect on my body if I eat 100 calories of a hard boiled egg. (22:24) Most people can eat one hard boiled egg without feeling a compulsion to eat the rest of the dozen.
(22:30) Nobody can eat 100 calories of potato chips without wanting to eat the whole bag. (22:35) And that's, it's based on physiology, and the fact that calories are not equal, and some calories make us fat, and make us store fat, make us want to eat more, and some calories don't. (22:46) So the idea is, it's not just eat fewer calories, it's eat, eat calories, make your diet with the types of calories that are healthy, and don't put on weight.
Julian Hayes II
(23:01) Yeah, I was laughing about that. (23:04) No one's ever eaten chips in moderation. (23:06) I've not found anyone who could do that, because I just don't have them around, because if they're around, I eat the whole thing.
(23:13) And I can also attest to the thing about exercising, working up your appetite, the more you do it, because I do distance and lifting. (23:20) And so, and a lot of people for some love to think about running to lose weight. (23:25) And that's the thing that really spikes your appetite even more so than just lifting weights.
(23:29) And there's nothing, and your appetite goes crazy. (23:32) So that's an excellent point that a lot of times we kind of overlook, and don't think about as much. (23:39) And so the next thing is heart disease and cardiovascular health in general, that's on the rise.
(23:44) And that's kind of what's what ran in my family. (23:46) And one of the things that perturbs me with that is the cholesterol thing of saying cholesterol is the sole cause of a lot of these various heart elements. (23:59) And you mentioned, you went into detail of this in the book and everything.
(24:03) So I would love to, you know, expound on this a little bit now.
Dr. Robert Lufkin
(24:06) Sure. (24:07) Let's divide it into two groups. (24:09) Let's look at dietary cholesterol, what we eat, like in eggs, like we talked about earlier, or versus blood cholesterol.
(24:21) It used to be believed that eggs, dietary cholesterol, eggs are high in cholesterol, raised our serum blood level cholesterol. (24:30) And for many years, the recommendation is don't eat eggs. (24:33) Or if you're going to eat eggs, take out the yolks, because the yolks are where all the cholesterol is.
(24:37) So just have an egg white omelet. (24:39) You know, we still see those in restaurants to this day. (24:42) But I think everyone pretty much now it's accepted that dietary cholesterol doesn't drive serum cholesterol.
(24:52) So you can meet eat as many eggs as you want. (24:55) And it's not going to change anything about your serum cholesterol. (24:58) Cholesterol is such an important molecule in our body that our body has tremendous mechanisms for regulating it.
(25:06) So if it gets too high, we can lower it. (25:08) If it gets too low, we can raise it. (25:10) So dietary cholesterol, we can just take that off the table.
(25:14) Now, the bigger question is the serum cholesterol drive heart disease. (25:20) And that's, that's a big, a big issue. (25:24) And, and our dietary recommendations, our cardiovascular prescription recommendations for the last 50 years have been based on the idea that heart disease is driven by fat, whether dietary fat or at least high fats in the bloodstream.
(25:44) And as a result of that, there were diets that recommended a low-fat type diet, which to this day is still, still recommended in various forms. (25:56) And the problem of a low-fat diet is also a high-carbohydrate diet. (26:00) And the high carbohydrates, as we mentioned before, drive insulin, which drive metabolic disease.
(26:06) So what's wrong with, with, with fat and cholesterol as a driver for heart disease? (26:15) Well, actually they are linked with heart disease, but a relatively small risk factor or small hazard ratio, especially when we compare it to things like smoking or things like things like metabolic abnormalities, like insulin resistance, things like triglycerides or HDL that we talked about before. (26:35) So there, the point is the, the LDL cholesterol or cholesterol, in my opinion, is a much smaller driver for heart disease than metabolic factors and metabolic disease.
(26:51) And, and the drivers for metabolic disease are carbohydrates. (26:55) What does that mean? (26:56) It means that I'm much more likely to raise my risk of getting a heart attack by eating a carbohydrate-rich diet, let's say a donut, than I am by eating something high in fat, like a steak or, you know, cheese or something like that, which, which goes against what people have been teaching for 50 years or more.
(27:18) And that's, I think that's one of the root problems about our understanding of cardiovascular disease. (27:24) And, you know, in the book, we, we go down the rabbit hole of statins and, you know, talk about those a lot. (27:30) And it's, it's, there's, you know, a lot of misinformation there that's still, still driving a lot of the food recommendations and the drug recommendations as far as statins.
Julian Hayes II
(27:45) Yeah. (27:46) I listened to a book recently on statins, but I couldn't remember all the details. (27:50) I couldn't remember exactly, but isn't that once again, kind of like, was it lobbying and things like that?
(27:57) That kind of like we talked about earlier, different associations and conflicts of interest with the people who are recommending that. (28:04) Is that the same thing with the statins? (28:05) Why that became like the go-to thing?
Dr. Robert Lufkin
(28:07) Yeah. (28:08) I mean, there's, there's tremendous pressure on, statins are one of the biggest all-time selling drugs in, in, in history. (28:17) In the book we talk about it, the money spent on statins is more than the combined revenue of the NFL, the baseball and the, you know, basketball as NBA associations.
(28:33) Just the amount of money is incredible. (28:35) So there's tremendous amount of pressure to sell these, sell these drugs. (28:40) And out of, you know, out of fairness to the, to the cardiologists and the people who prescribe a lot of statins, there aren't a lot of other drugs for heart disease, you know, that you can, that you can get because it's mainly lifestyle.
(28:56) It's about, in my, my opinion, metabolic disease and, you know, the same thing we've been talking about. (29:01) So there, there aren't, there aren't drugs that, that change metabolic disease to a significant factor. (29:07) So statin is one thing that will lower, reliably lower your LDL cholesterol in your blood.
(29:13) So one thing doctors can do is they can look at your blood and go, Oh, you have a high LDL cholesterol. (29:19) I'm going to give you a stat and I'll lower it. (29:21) And then everybody feels better.
(29:23) The doctor feels better. (29:25) The patient feels better. (29:26) But, you know, there, there's some disturbing facts that, you know, in, in large studies with hundreds of thousands of patients, most people who show up in an emergency room with a heart attack have a normal LDL cholesterol.
(29:40) It's not elevated. (29:42) Furthermore, when some large studies and statins are coming out, one, it's showing that they drive, they drive the risk for metabolic disease, including diabetes, which is, which is more of a risk factor for heart attacks than, than raised LDL cholesterol. (30:00) But something else came out with just, just kind of the numbers that it's a, it's a meta analysis of several large statin studies.
(30:08) And it showed, it asked the questions, do people take statins? (30:13) Do they have a lower risk of dying of a heart attack than somebody who doesn't take statins in large populations? (30:19) And sure enough, they found, yeah, that, that there was, it was a small percentage, you know, single digits, low single digits, right?
(30:27) So, but Hey, the number one cause of death for you and me and most of our listeners is going to be a heart attack. (30:34) That's statistically what it is. (30:36) We may die of something else, but, but the numbers are, that's the biggest killer.
(30:40) So we want to you know, Hey, I'll take, I'll take anything that'll improve the risk. (30:46) So what's the problem with that? (30:49) Well, there are a lot of, there are a lot of untoward side effects of statins.
(30:52) You know, we talked about diabetes, mental things brain fog and all that, but there's something even more interesting. (31:00) The study that showed the low single digit improvement in mortality with people on statins, when they expanded it to look at all cause mortality, not just dying of heart attack, they found that there was no improvement on the people in statins. (31:19) What does that mean?
(31:20) It means that people taking statins, although they have fewer heart attacks, they, they still had the same mortality, which means they died of something else in greater numbers. (31:31) Well, that's weird. (31:33) What was that?
(31:34) Well, what did they die of? (31:35) They died of things like suicide and traffic accidents and other things that if you think about, you know, statins are affecting cholesterol, cholesterol makes up our brain really. (31:45) And many other things messing around with, with LDL cholesterol levels apparently may have effects on other types of diseases that at least in the case of these studies wiped out any advantage of lowering the heart attack mortality risk.
(32:04) So it's, it's a complicated, it's a complicated story and you know, things are still coming in on it, but it's a big red flag for me.
Julian Hayes II
(32:12) Yeah. (32:12) And staying with cholesterol for a bit, and I, I don't remember the whole study and I, but I think I did see that people that live longer had higher cholesterols. (32:24) And so I think it was more of a benefit maybe after age 60 to have higher than recommended levels of cholesterol.
(32:32) Was that, is that, is that something?
Dr. Robert Lufkin
(32:34) Yeah. (32:35) There's, yeah, there's some studies that show that as well.
Julian Hayes II
(32:39) Yeah. (32:40) So and another thing if in case of listeners, when you hear carbohydrates, you're talking mostly refined and processed carbohydrates.
Dr. Robert Lufkin
(32:48) Yeah. (32:49) Yeah. (32:50) The bad ones, the bad ones that I avoid, I actually cut them all out of my diet pretty much are sugars, refined sugars, and then starches, which, which means flour, rice, you know, grains, including grains.
(33:06) There, there are other carbohydrates in fiber in plants that are, that are okay, and they don't have the same effect on the insulin, which is what we're really concerned about.
Julian Hayes II
(33:15) Yeah. (33:16) Speaking on the subject of nutrition, how do you go about, how do you go about, you know, constructing, helping people construct their, an ideal diet for them? (33:24) And I know everyone, there's going to be a little nuances for all of us, but I guess a high level overview.
Dr. Robert Lufkin
(33:30) Yeah. (33:30) I mean, I can give you the, the kind of the, the three recommendations that I use that, that sort of influenced my, my food choices. (33:38) And for me, they were transformative.
(33:41) They, they basically changed my situation with these chronic diseases. (33:47) And it, they're the same things that, that other people have used to with dramatic effects as well. (33:53) So there, there are three changes in what I ate.
(33:58) And then one change in when I ate, the first change was when I ate, like my mom, the dietician, like many people today still recommend eating many small meals throughout the day, you know, snacking all the time, my kids get fed that at their schools, they have snack breaks all the time. (34:16) Well, the first thing I did was stop, stop snacking between meals and narrow the eating window. (34:24) Eating in itself drives inflammation and there are other factors as well.
(34:28) So there's a benefit of actually not eating for periods of time during the day. (34:33) Some people call this intermittent fasting. (34:35) So I actually stopped snacking and then I, and then I wound up skipping breakfast.
(34:42) And now a lot of times I'll skip lunch too. (34:45) And I'll just have lunch. (34:46) I have dinner when my kids come home from school one meal a day.
(34:50) And that works, that works for me. (34:52) The other thing I do is what I eat. (34:54) And it's just three simple things.
(34:56) First of all, I cut out carbohydrates as much as possible. (35:00) They're not essential. (35:02) They don't, I don't need them to live.
(35:04) And they mainly do bad things, you know, as far as driving insulin and everything else. (35:10) And don't get me wrong. (35:12) I love, you know, I love sweets, you know, but I love my kids more and I want to live to see them grow up and their grandkids.
(35:20) So it's worth it to give those up. (35:22) So get rid of carbohydrates. (35:24) Second thing I do is I get rid of things called junk seed oils, which are a type of unhealthy oil, starting out with Crisco that we referenced earlier, but includes things like canola oil, soybean oil, rapeseed oil, corn oil.
(35:42) There's a list of about eight of them that are highly processed oils that are unstable at high temperature, which unfortunately, almost all foods are fried in them today. (35:52) So it's another reason not to eat fried foods because they break down, but they're not just in the fried foods. (35:57) They're also in almost all salad dressings.
(36:00) They're in, you know, even that healthy hummus you get from Trader Joe's look at the side, it's got soybean oil or canola oil in them. (36:07) So I avoid all those, all those seed oils at all. (36:11) And then the last thing I do is grains.
(36:16) I'm not, I don't have celiac disease. (36:19) I don't have an allergy to gluten, which is a protein on the grain, but I believe that most adults have low-grade inflammatory reactions or a low-grade allergy or inflammation to the proteins in grains, not necessarily just gluten, but some of the other ones that drives this low-grade inflammation. (36:40) And by removing grains from our diet, even whole grains, we can get rid of this effect.
(36:47) And for some people, it's really transforming in their lives. (36:49) And if that weren't enough of a reason to avoid grains, at least in the United States, most grains are literally soaked in a toxic weed killer called glyphosate from Monsanto Corporation, which is outlawed in over 35 countries around the world because of its association with cancer and other things. (37:10) And then finally, grains are generally, they're usually high in carbohydrates.
(37:15) So I avoid them for that reason as well.
Julian Hayes II
(37:17) Yeah. (37:18) So what do you think about the, the grains, if they're organic and they're, they're, they're actually processed without all that. (37:27) Do you think people still have that, that kind of that low-grade inflammation?
Dr. Robert Lufkin
(37:30) Well, you could get rid of the glyphosate that way. (37:33) Some of the, some of the grains you can get rid of that way. (37:35) They, they still have carbohydrates.
(37:37) I mean, that's what grains are, right? (37:39) A lot of them have the carbohydrates and they also have these, these proteins just by the nature of the grains have certain proteins, which, which for many people are gut disruptors and they cause leaky gut and they, and they cause this low-grade inflammation. (37:56) So, you know, I like organic, I like regenerative even more, but those labels don't, don't reverse it for me with the grains.
(38:06) It's something fundamental about the grains and the proteins in it for me at least. (38:11) And people could try it, you know, try, you know, try cutting out sugars, see if you feel the difference and you'll feel a difference in a week or so. (38:18) Grains, because it's an inflammatory thing, it could take up to three months before you feel the difference after you stop eating grains.
(38:25) So don't expect, you know, hey, I tried it for a week, nothing happened. (38:30) So, and then finally seed oils, seed oils can stay in our body for months to years. (38:36) So that can be even a longer, longer effect, but that's still no reason not to, not to get rid of them if you can.
(38:43) Seed oils, there's no added taste to them. (38:46) It's not like they taste better. (38:47) It's not like sugar.
(38:48) Oh, it's sweet. (38:48) I like it. (38:50) Seed oils, the only reason we use them is because they're cheap.
(38:53) They're cheaper than healthy oils like avocado oil or olive oil. (38:57) Why are they cheap? (38:58) They're cheap the same reason junk food is cheap because, uhm, corn and soybean are subsidized by our tax dollars of the food bill.
(39:06) So they're artificially cheaper than the healthier oils. (39:09) And that, that's why sadly in many cases, junk foods are cheaper than, than more healthy foods because our tax dollars underwrite the junk foods, the high fructose corn syrup that's in our, our Coke.
Julian Hayes II
(39:21) Yeah. (39:21) A lot of times, a lot of times you can just follow the money and that will, that will, that will give you a lot of answers. (39:26) And, you know, speaking of that, a lot of times we hear that things like if we solve Alzheimer's or if we saw, you know, heart disease, we'll add X, we'll save X amount of dollars at X amount of years.
(39:38) But really the thing, and you pointed this out in the book as well is, is aging. (39:43) That's the big thing. (39:44) If you solve that pretty much a lot of these other things are going to be solved.
(39:49) And so speaking of aging, you mentioned rapamycin in there. (39:54) Do you actually, let me rephrase it. (39:57) What do you think is probably, or what's your favorite age, aging thing that's on the horizon now or even right now?
(40:04) What do you think has the most promise?
Dr. Robert Lufkin
(40:07) Yeah. (40:08) Well, I, the, the book at full disclosure, I didn't, I didn't intend to write a book about longevity or I wasn't even interested in it. (40:16) Although I find the older I get, the more I become interested in longevity.
(40:21) But but the book was a book about metabolic health and lifestyle. (40:26) But what I realized is the chronic diseases that are all driven by this metabolic health are actually the diseases that determine our longevity. (40:37) In other words, nobody dies of old age.
(40:40) In fact, in the United States, you can't put old age as a cause of death on the death certificate. (40:45) Doctors have to fill out death certificates when people die and we have to write down what they died of and we can't say old age. (40:52) We have to specify things.
(40:53) And if we look at, like, like we said, statistically, what you and I and all our listeners are going to die of, it's a, it's a really short list. (41:03) At the top, as we mentioned, was cardiovascular disease, stroke and heart attack. (41:07) But then below that, it's, it's the other chronic diseases, it's cancer, it's Alzheimer's disease.
(41:14) So if we if we change our lifestyle, and we we adopt metabolically healthy things in our lives, and we push these these chronic diseases later and later in our life, then what happens is, we're, we're gonna, we're gonna live longer. (41:31) And that's, that's a really exciting part, because this is now a longevity play. (41:37) But then in getting more into it in the book, I realized there's a revolution in our understanding about literally aging and longevity, just like or even more so than our revolution in our understanding of metabolic disease.
(41:52) In fact, they're now, they're now drugs, you, you referenced one of them rapamycin that, that gets at the basic metabolic signaling pathway, because if we want to, we want to improve longevity, we have to improve our metabolic health, because it's all the same, you know, the, the diseases that control longevity are the metabolic health, chronic diseases. (42:13) So we reverse those, we live longer. (42:16) So no surprise, the most powerful anti aging drug ever, ever, ever tested and shown in all animals from yeast all the way to mammals is rapamycin, without a question.
(42:29) And rapamycin works on a basic metabolic switch that that called m tour that we talked about in the book that that improves our metabolic health and rapamycin is it's an FDA approved drug, it's been around for 25 years. (42:46) But now people are taking it off label, so to speak, for longevity. (42:51) In fact, I take it myself for that.
(42:53) I don't want to hedge my bets. (42:55) But I know, I believe that it has a value. (42:58) And there are a number of other strategies that we can use.
(43:02) You know, in addition to just improving our metabolic health, there are actually specific longevity plays that are going to be sick, they're going to be really powerful, like stem cells, exosomes, regenerative medicine, partial epigenetic programming, where we rewind cells using Yamanaka factors back to their youthful state. (43:22) And this has already been shown in in mice to reverse types of blindness with some of Dave Sinclair's work. (43:30) And, and now they're looking at beginning to do this with humans.
(43:33) So it's, it's such an amazing time. (43:35) It's so exciting. (43:36) Every, every day, I can't get way to get up and see what new breakthroughs are coming through, not only in metabolism, but also in longevity.
Julian Hayes II
(43:45) Yeah, and so we're recording this tour at the tail end of 2024. (43:48) And this will be out in 2025. (43:49) And so what's maybe one or two things you're most excited about for the upcoming year?
Dr. Robert Lufkin
(43:56) Wow. (43:58) There are. (44:01) I'm, I'm excited about I'm not, this is not a I know your podcast is not a political podcast.
(44:10) My my social media, my brand is not a political brand. (44:13) So politics aside, I'm, I'm really excited that, that for the first time, a political party on national level, we've suddenly heard politicians use the word seed oil in a conversation or use the word metabolic health. (44:33) And, and they're beginning to question the USDA and the food pyramid and the FDA and the CDC.
(44:40) And some of our entrenched, our entrenched healthcare bureaucracy, I think is going to be looked at under a microscope with a focus on metabolic health. (44:52) And this, this we've never seen in our in the history of the United States, really. (44:57) And, and it's a possible it's, I think it's gonna, it's going to transform things.
(45:03) And this is not, you know, it's one political party that's done this, but it's not a political thing. (45:09) Everybody, the Democrats and the Republicans, they should both get behind this. (45:13) Because this is, this is, this is for all of us.
(45:16) Health is not a political issue, it shouldn't be. (45:18) But I'm super excited about that. (45:21) And I'm going to be talking to Robert Kennedy, who's in line, as you know, to become the Health and Human Services Secretary, overseeing essentially everything.
(45:35) And it looks like he's going to be appearing on my podcast. (45:38) So I'm going to be asking him some questions about that this spring.
Julian Hayes II
(45:42) I can't wait to listen to that. (45:44) Because I'm highly interested in that as well. (45:46) And I'm interested in it for a lot of reasons.
(45:49) One, because, like you mentioned, those reasons, bringing this stuff up to a national stage, I'm really excited about that. (45:57) But two, there's also a curiosity in me to see if people can put egos aside and actually work together on something. (46:03) That's going to be the ultimate litmus test.
(46:05) Because a lot of times, unfortunately, now, health has become political, of all things, fitness has become political, you're leaning some, if you do this type of fitness activity, this means you lean toward this side of the political aisle. (46:17) And it was the craziest thing that I've seen. (46:19) So I'm really curious to see if people are going to put egos aside and come together on something that is pretty strong in terms of data of like, hey, what we've been doing, the numbers don't lie.
(46:31) It's been a steadily decline. (46:33) And it's been veering down any category you can look at. (46:37) It's been declining.
(46:39) So I'm really curious to see if grownups can play together.
Dr. Robert Lufkin
(46:44) Exactly. (46:44) Well, I think we all have to be open minded and humble and realize that we don't know anything, we still haven't figured it out. (46:53) I mean, for the first time in recent history, the obesity rates have started to level off and started to go down.
(47:03) At the time of this broadcast, a Journal of American Medical Association article just mentioned that, you know, is this a blip in the growth of obesity going up? (47:14) Or are we starting to see the effects of GLP-1 agonists and Ozempic, you know, finally doing what, you know, nothing else has been able to do in combating this epidemic?
Julian Hayes II
(47:28) Yeah. (47:28) And as we get ready to wind down here, this is just another question this pops up in my head is, how has it been to become much more prominent on social media and all this other things now? (47:43) What's been your biggest revelation with that?
(47:47) Because I'm sure you didn't think even years ago that, hey, I'm going to be more active on social media with podcasts and all these things. (47:56) And so, yeah. (47:58) So how's that?
Dr. Robert Lufkin
(47:58) Yeah. (47:59) I mean, it's been, it's really exciting because it's something I never had an experience with. (48:07) I hadn't posted on Twitter before a couple years ago.
(48:12) Now I have a couple hundred thousand or over a hundred thousand followers. (48:15) And I've kind of, so it's like, it's a new thing, but it's fun learning new things like this. (48:20) And I think the ability to float ideas out there, it's not just Twitter X, it's, you know, LinkedIn, Twitch, Blue Sky, you know, Take Your Pick, YouTube, Instagram, on and on threads.
(48:35) They're all good, but it allows people to float ideas and then get immediate feedback. (48:41) And some of it's, you know, some of it's trolling, but some of it's really good, you know, and just seeing the ideas and the rapid turnaround of ideas that, you know, a scientific paper comes out and six people start talking about it. (48:54) You know, it's so exciting.
(48:56) I think it's just, it's energizing. (48:58) I think, and it's changing the way we do science. (49:02) It's changing the way that information gets out to people.
(49:05) And I think it's, you know, for the most part positive and I'm really hopeful and excited for the future about it.
Julian Hayes II
(49:13) Yeah, I agree with that. (49:14) It's a great way to stay current. (49:17) It's a great way to just learn different topics.
(49:19) And because usually they put an idea out there and it gets your curiosity, at least with me, and then I go do further studying. (49:26) And so that's, that's what I've used. (49:29) I mean, there's so many different things that I've learned just from some random anonymous Twitter account that puts ideas like, oh, that's interesting.
(49:36) Is this true? (49:37) Let me, let me go look this up. (49:39) And there's a whole bunch of research on it.
(49:41) Like, oh my goodness, I didn't know about this. (49:43) So I think it's cool. (49:44) And so the last question here is pretty random, but I want you to pretend that you're having a glass of wine or that you're having a cup of coffee or a cup of tea with someone.
(49:52) And these three people that you can invite with you to share for a conversation, and they can be dead or alive, but it has to exclude friends or family. (50:01) Who would you invite to have this conversation?
Dr. Robert Lufkin
(50:05) Oh, wow. (50:05) Well, I would, I pick, I pick Leonardo da Vinci. (50:14) Boy, Albert Einstein.
(50:16) He's not a, you know, not a medicine part, part one. (50:20) And then, geez, for the third one, I'm not sure. (50:24) I'd probably pick a spiritual figure of some sort of some spiritual path.
(50:28) I'm not religious, but I'd like to think I'm spiritual. (50:31) So I would invite someone, someone from there, you know, maybe somebody from Gobekli Tepe to tell us why they're building a megaliths 12,000 years ago when their hunter gatherers, and we're not supposed to have advanced civilizations, you know.
Julian Hayes II
(50:49) I definitely need every single brain cell for that conversation. (50:55) I need every single, I need to be supremely cognitively optimized for that conversation. (51:03) So, but thank you so much for joining me.
(51:06) This has been an awesome conversation. (51:08) I really enjoyed everything that we went over. (51:11) And so where are outlets that listeners can keep up with you at?
Dr. Robert Lufkin
(51:16) Oh, yeah. (51:16) My website is RobertLufkin, L-U-F as in Frank, K-I-N-M-D dot com. (51:23) You can download a sample chapter of my book there with audio and PDF forms.
(51:29) I'm active on social media. (51:31) My wife says I'm too active, but you could follow me there and say hi.
Julian Hayes II
(51:37) Oh, man. (51:38) So I will have all that in the show notes. (51:40) So once again, thank you so much for joining me.
(51:42) Listeners out there, stay awesome, be limitless, and as always, go be the CEO of your health and life. (51:47) Peace.
