Sonia Couto on Handling Breast Cancer While Building A Start-Up and Executive Leadership
In the world of entrepreneurship, challenges are a given. Yet, few stories capture the essence of resilience, determination, and personal growth as powerfully as Sonia Couto’s. As the Managing Director at Konverge, Sonia has not only successfully led her company to global success but has done so while facing one of life’s most daunting challenges—breast cancer. Her journey is a testament to the power of perseverance, self-awareness, and the importance of celebrating even the smallest victories.
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From Portugal to Tech: An Accidental Entrepreneur
Sonia’s story begins far from the boardrooms of tech companies. It starts on the lush, green island of São Miguel in the Azores, Portugal. Her Portuguese heritage is a source of pride, and she fondly recalls her love for soccer, particularly her excitement during the Euro Cup. But her journey into the tech world truly sets her apart.
Sonia’s entry into tech was not part of a grand plan. In fact, she describes it as accidental. Starting her career in manufacturing, where she focused on operations and process improvement, Sonia eventually found herself recruited by a tech company in need of her expertise. Here, she began to carve out a niche for herself, not by following a predetermined path, but by being curious, proactive, and unafraid to insert herself into roles that needed filling.
“I wasn’t invited to that meeting, but I was curious about what they were doing,” Sonia recalls. This curiosity and willingness to step into roles others might shy away from allowed her to rise quickly through the ranks, eventually leading to her current role as Managing Director.
Founding Two Companies Amid Adversity
Sonia’s entrepreneurial journey took a significant turn when she became the last person standing from an original team working on two tech products within Konverge. With the rest of the team having left, she faced a pivotal decision: abandon the projects or take them on herself. True to her nature, Sonia chose the latter, rebuilding the products from the ground up, developing a business plan, and eventually turning them into globally successful ventures.
This period of her life was not without its challenges. The tech industry, heavily male-dominated, presented its own set of obstacles. Yet, Sonia’s approach remained consistent—she focused on learning, growing, and improving with every step. Her background as a middle child, accustomed to making the best out of hand-me-downs, served her well in transforming struggling products into successful enterprises.
The Battle with Breast Cancer
As if the demands of building a start-up weren’t enough, Sonia was diagnosed with breast cancer in the midst of her entrepreneurial journey. The news, delivered during what should have been a routine day, didn’t immediately sink in. Sonia returned to work, attended an award show that evening, and kept moving forward as if in a state of shock.
It was only later, as she underwent treatment and began to process the gravity of her situation that the real challenge set in. But rather than succumb to fear or despair, Sonia chose to keep herself busy. She continued to focus on her work, using it as a distraction and a source of strength. It wasn’t until she was declared a survivor that she truly began to process the journey she had been on.
Sonia’s experience with cancer taught her invaluable lessons about control and delegation. A self-proclaimed control freak, she learned the importance of letting go, trusting her team, and focusing on the aspects of life she could influence. This shift benefited her health and allowed her company to flourish as her team members were given the space to excel in their roles.
Redefining Success and Embracing Peace
Through her journey, Sonia’s definition of success has evolved significantly. No longer is it about achieving material wealth or status; instead, she now equates success with peace. For Sonia, true success is found in doing what you love, maintaining a sense of calm and balance, and being content with where you are in life.
“I don’t need a whole lot. I just want to do what I love every day, and be at peace with myself, and those around me,” she says. This perspective has allowed her to focus on what truly matters, both in her personal life and her business endeavors.
Lessons for Entrepreneurs
Sonia’s story offers numerous lessons for entrepreneurs and anyone facing significant life challenges:
Curiosity and Proactivity: Sonia’s success in the tech industry was largely due to her willingness to step into roles that others might have avoided. Her curiosity and proactive approach opened doors and created opportunities she might not have otherwise had.
Learning from Failure: Sonia emphasizes the importance of failing as a learning tool. In her view, if you’re not failing, you’re not pushing yourself to try new things and grow.
The Importance of Delegation: One of the most valuable lessons Sonia learned was the need to delegate. Letting go of control helped her health and empowered her team to perform at their best.
Redefining Success: Sonia’s journey has led her to a new understanding of success, prioritizing peace and personal fulfillment over material gains.
Resilience: Sonia’s resilience has been her greatest asset throughout her journey. Whether facing the challenges of entrepreneurship or battling cancer, her ability to persevere, adapt, and keep moving forward has been key to her success.
Conclusion
Sonia Couto’s story powerfully reminds us that life’s greatest challenges often come with the greatest opportunities for growth. Her journey from a small island in Portugal to leading a global tech company while battling breast cancer is an inspiring testament to the power of resilience, curiosity, and the willingness to redefine success on your terms.
For entrepreneurs, Sonia’s story is both a source of inspiration and a roadmap for navigating the inevitable ups and downs of the entrepreneurial journey. Her insights into leadership, mental health, and the importance of self-awareness offer valuable lessons for anyone looking to succeed against all odds.
Connect with Sonia Couto
Website: https://soniacouto.com/
[Podcast] Tenacity with Sonia C: https://soniacouto.com/podcast/
Transcript
Sonia Couto
(0:00) Be curious, for sure. (0:03) Be willing to be self-aware, and if you're not, learn how to be self-aware. (0:09) And learn from your failures, and fail, fail, fail, over and over and over again, and learn from that, and pick yourself up, and make it better.
(0:17) I think failures is, if you're not failing, you're not learning, you're not doing anything differently.
Julian Hayes II
(0:27) Now, Sonia, when I was looking at your Instagram, I couldn't help but see that you had the Portuguese jersey on, so I was curious, when it went to watching the Euro Cup, did you watch every game and every minute of it?
Sonia Couto
(0:41) I watched every game and every minute of it, and I was on my pins and needles.
Julian Hayes II
(0:47) Yeah. (0:48) Do you think Ronaldo's going to come to the World Cup?
Sonia Couto
(0:52) I do. (0:53) I think he'll make it. (0:55) He's so disciplined.
(0:57) I think if anyone can do it, it's him. (0:59) I hope he does.
Julian Hayes II
(1:01) Yeah. (1:02) Now, the next question is, will he be a starter, or is he going to be a super sub? (1:06) Because he's going to be almost 40 then, or at 40, right?
Sonia Couto
(1:10) I think he's going to be there. (1:12) The purpose of him being there will be to motivate the team. (1:16) So, I don't know.
(1:18) I think to him, it'll matter what position they put him in, but I think to the fans and everyone else, he's just going to be there to give that motivation.
Julian Hayes II
(1:25) Mm-hmm. (1:26) Okay. (1:27) Yeah.
(1:27) That's what I think, too. (1:29) Selfishly, I hope him and Messi and a lot of other stars that may be a little older, they do stay, because the World Cup's going to be in the States this year, and it's going to be in Canada as well, right?
Sonia Couto
(1:39) Yeah. (1:40) Yeah. (1:40) I'm excited.
(1:41) Hopefully, we can catch a game.
Julian Hayes II
(1:43) Yeah. (1:43) I know you're going to the game. (1:49) Yeah.
(1:49) Yeah. (1:50) So, some of your background is, I believe, you're half Portuguese?
Sonia Couto
(1:54) No, I'm full Portuguese.
Julian Hayes II
(1:55) I was born here. (1:55) Full Portuguese. (1:56) Okay.
(1:56) Okay. (1:56) Okay. (1:57) And so, what part?
Sonia Couto
(1:59) I'm from a little island called São Miguel, which is part of nine islands that belong to the Azores that are part of Portugal.
Julian Hayes II
(2:06) Mm-hmm. (2:06) Oh, okay. (2:07) So, I have a random story about that.
(2:10) When I was saying, and I was probably an idiot for not doing it. (2:15) So, when I was, I stayed in Porto for about six weeks, and I had the opportunity, it was just a flight and everything given to me by a friend, to go check out the islands over there, just for hiking and everything. (2:27) And I was just like, nah, I'm just too lazy.
(2:28) I don't want to take the trip. (2:30) Did you go? (2:30) And they said it was so beautiful.
(2:31) And then, I looked at pictures, and I'm like, oh my goodness.
Sonia Couto
(2:35) Yeah. (2:36) The islands are very fresh and green. (2:39) They're not super touristy yet, and they're very tiny little towns.
(2:45) It's just an active, like my island is an active volcano, so we have the hot water springs that you can go swimming in. (2:55) It's absolutely stunning. (2:57) It's very green everywhere you look.
(2:59) You see green, and you always see the ocean. (3:01) It's always that view.
Julian Hayes II
(3:03) I'm going to have to go back.
Sonia Couto
(3:05) Yeah.
Julian Hayes II
(3:05) Yeah, I'm going to have to go back. (3:07) So, we're a little over halfway throughout the year.
Sonia Couto
(3:11) You could.
Julian Hayes II
(3:12) Yeah. (3:14) And, you know, being over halfway throughout the year, I'm curious, what are maybe one or two big revelations that you've had this year?
Sonia Couto
(3:25) Revelations that I've had this year. (3:28) I think for me, just personally, one of the biggest revelations I've had is like, I need to stop being so hard on myself, and take little wins, and be proud of myself for the things that I've done. (3:42) I tend to be like, I think in general, we all tend to be like really hard on ourselves.
(3:46) And when we accomplish something, or we achieve something, it's always like, okay, well, what's next? (3:51) We don't even make time to just celebrate those small wins. (3:55) So, I think that halfway through the year, that's really what I'm trying to focus on.
(3:59) And I think it's really good for my mental health.
Julian Hayes II
(4:06) Yeah. (4:06) That's ironic that you brought that up, because I was having this conversation last week, where they were talking about that it seems like it's harder for entrepreneurs or people that just have, I guess, big goals or dreams, or just always looking to the future, it's hard to just be happy with where you are right now and accept that. (4:24) Because a lot of times we have this, we see the gap.
(4:28) So, even if we made a lot of progress, we still see like, we're so far away from where I'm trying to go, or where I desire to go. (4:35) And so, tactically, getting those small wins, what have you done differently this year to force yourself to do that? (4:41) Is it simply journaling?
(4:43) Is it acknowledgement? (4:44) What have you done tactically?
Sonia Couto
(4:46) Yeah. (4:46) I mean, journaling is a big piece of it, but I started journaling years ago for other reasons, and that's just helped me along. (4:54) But I have a digital journal, not a regular journal.
(4:58) And so, in my digital journal, I'm able to create other notebooks and things like that. (5:03) And because I was journaling a lot, I created a digital book where every day I just go in and I put in my to-do list for the day. (5:13) And it's nothing extravagant, it's not like everything, but it's something simple like, send out that email.
(5:19) And what it does to me at the end of the day is when I look at that list, and I see that I have 20 things on it, but I have like 11 check marks, it makes me feel really good. (5:29) And like, I really accomplished something, and it allows me to like, really take on those little wins.
Julian Hayes II
(5:36) And so, I'm curious on what inspired you to, let's dive into a little bit of your backstory, what inspired you to be an entrepreneur after all? (5:43) How did you find it?
Sonia Couto
(5:45) I've always, like, since a young age, I've always had like, I've always wanted to run a business. (5:51) I've always had like side hustles, where I worked full time, and I had little side hustles. (5:57) What I'm doing now in tech, there's a couple of different things around it.
(6:02) Entrepreneurship is one part of it. (6:04) And I kind of like, went into it by an accident. (6:07) But it is naturally something that I love doing.
(6:12) So it just it just came naturally to me.
Julian Hayes II
(6:14) Now, the age old question, can, are you born an entrepreneur? (6:19) Or can you develop into entrepreneur? (6:21) What do you think?
Sonia Couto
(6:22) I think everyone is, I think everyone's an entrepreneur. (6:25) I think companies, big companies, corporations out there have entrepreneurs within them. (6:31) So I don't think entrepreneurship represents you owning your own business.
(6:36) I think there are entrepreneurs working in large companies that are coming up with great ideas and new product development. (6:44) Those are all entrepreneurs. (6:45) So I think entrepreneurship is really someone who can think outside the box and generate new ideas or new business potential.
(6:53) So I think there's a but I think there's a little bit in all of it.
Julian Hayes II
(6:59) I like that. (6:59) I like that. (7:00) So it's more of a mentality, more of a mindset.
(7:02) And then also, I think formerly, sometimes people in corporate call those people entrepreneurs now, right?
Sonia Couto
(7:07) Yeah.
Julian Hayes II
(7:07) Yeah. (7:08) Yeah. (7:08) So, so I saw that you had two, you founded two companies, right?
(7:13) And what's the backstory to starting with the first company?
Sonia Couto
(7:17) Yeah, well, they both sort of have very similar story, because they both happen sort of at the same time. (7:24) So I've been, I'm managing director for a company called Converge. (7:28) And Converge does software development.
(7:30) And within the Converge company, a bunch of us one day just sort of had these ideas to start these two products. (7:39) And we built these products within the Converge group. (7:42) So we use some of the resources.
(7:44) And then what happened was we had a couple people working on these, you know, two companies. (7:49) And slowly, everyone sort of left. (7:52) And then it got to the point where I was the only one from the original founding team that was left in the company with these products.
(8:00) And so I had to make a decision there, what do I do? (8:03) Do I do I scrap these and just, you know, go do something else? (8:07) Or am I going to take this on myself and really do something with it.
(8:11) And that's really what I did. (8:13) I looked at what we had. (8:15) And I said, we're going to scrap all of this, we're going to completely rebuilt, we're going to put together a proper business plan around it.
(8:22) And we're going to make this successful. (8:24) So I started with one of the products and took that from scratch and built it up. (8:30) And then with the second product, I just did what I had done with the first one, because I had sort of built a template.
(8:36) Obviously, different industries, you know, requires different types of marketing and things like that. (8:40) But I took the products from where they were, which was sort of a failure, they weren't really doing well, there was no customers. (8:48) And I worked with a development team to rebuild the technology, the way the product worked.
(8:54) And then I built a marketing team to start marketing the product. (8:58) And now we are a global company selling the product all over the world. (9:01) And right now, we're on our way to meet our quota for the year.
(9:05) So it's really good.
Julian Hayes II
(9:07) That's awesome to hear. (9:08) I heard a very interesting thing right there when you said everyone left and abandoned ship. (9:13) And it was just you.
(9:14) So how's that moment when you're just, you look around, you're like, where's everybody out? (9:20) And it's just me. (9:21) And then you're essentially having to go out and reform an entirely new different team.
Sonia Couto
(9:26) Yeah, one thing that I'm really good at is I'm really good at taking something that already exists, and working on it and making it better. (9:34) I'm not necessarily the type of person that will I can but I don't I'm not necessarily the person who takes something from scratch. (9:41) I'm a middle child.
(9:42) So I grew up with hand-me-downs. (9:44) And so I think that's sort of my personality. (9:46) So how I saw that was as a hand-me-down.
(9:50) The whole team left and I got handed down these products. (9:54) And now I have an opportunity to, you know, like a dress that was handed down to me. (9:59) Can I hem this?
(10:00) You know, I learned how to hem as a child because I wanted to sort of alter things. (10:05) So to me, that was just an opportunity to take a hand-me-down and be like, I'm going to do something with this.
Julian Hayes II
(10:11) That's one of the most interesting things that I almost want to poll every entrepreneur, every leader now, just to kind of see like, for one, do you have any siblings in what order you're in? (10:23) And see if that goes with it. (10:24) Because I wonder, so I'm the only child.
(10:26) So I wonder, what does that mean for only children? (10:29) Because I think I've heard that the older sibling the oldest one is typically a little more, they have to grow up a little more faster because there's younger ones. (10:37) And so those are more in a leadership role and stuff like that.
(10:41) So I'm very curious on that. (10:43) I don't know. (10:43) The only thing I've heard about only children is that sometimes they're a little selfish and self-centered.
(10:50) So yeah, I'm very curious on that. (10:52) So if anyone's listening has research on that, I would love to hear that and see if there's any connection with that. (11:00) So you're in the tech industry.
(11:04) The tech industry is typically heavily male-dominated. (11:08) I don't know the percentages, but I imagine it's going to be 65% upwards probably. (11:13) And so I'm curious, the first thing is how'd you get your start in that industry?
Sonia Couto
(11:20) I got into tech by an accident. (11:23) My background, so when I started my career, I actually worked in manufacturing doing operations. (11:33) So my background was going into a plant and really reinventing and redesigning the plant so that they could automate and not be so dependent on humans.
(11:45) And that's sort of what I did. (11:46) And then I did a lot of accounting and financials that went along with that. (11:50) So my background was operations.
(11:53) And in the midst of that, I sort of got recruited to this tech company who sort of needed that done. (11:59) When I first started, I started at a very basic level, but then I saw the need in this one particular company for operations to tie into all the other departments because they weren't really doing it. (12:10) So I sort of just stepped up and like, Hey, have you guys thought about this and this and that?
(12:14) And so I became the operations manager within a couple of years of being in there. (12:19) And so I just sort of worked my way in from there. (12:21) But yeah, it was a total accident.
(12:23) It's not like I wanted to be a techie or anything. (12:25) I do love it now though.
Julian Hayes II
(12:28) Yeah. (12:28) And so I'm curious, let's see how I work this. (12:33) What are some things that maybe only a woman would understand when it comes to working in a tech industry or even just growing a business and things like that, that probably only a woman would understand?
Sonia Couto
(12:47) Only a woman would understand. (12:50) I mean, I could say like the typical thing, but I'm going to try not to. (12:54) I think for me, it was, I'm going to give the advice that worked for me.
(13:00) For me, it was about being really curious, not sitting back and watching everyone else ask questions and do the work. (13:08) It was about really curiosity. (13:10) I wasn't invited to that meeting.
(13:13) I don't know what's going on, but I'm going to ask if I can, because I'm just curious about what they're doing. (13:18) And just like really inserting myself in places I didn't belong. (13:24) And that gave me the opportunity to start learning.
(13:26) Listen, at the time, I didn't know anything about business analysis and code development and QA and project management. (13:35) But because I became so curious about all the different roles and I started getting involved, what started happening is as someone would leave the company, I'd be like, oh, do we have a replacement for that person yet? (13:47) No.
(13:47) Okay, well, this person gave two weeks notice. (13:49) There's no way we're going to find someone in that time. (13:52) It's going to take at least a month or two.
(13:53) Can I fill in in the meantime? (13:56) Because I now can spend two weeks with the person that is leaving who can sort of get me up to date. (14:01) I can take notes and I'll fill in until we find someone.
(14:05) And I also am lucky that I worked in a company that was like, yes. (14:09) So I just started doing that. (14:11) I remember one time we had a business analyst that left and listen, I know nothing about business analysis at this point.
(14:17) I've never done it. (14:18) I've never put a document together. (14:20) I remember I was like drawing little boxes on a paper and like manually, like not even professional, but I still did it.
(14:30) And I remember my boss at the time, he's like, this is good. (14:33) He's like, this is even better. (14:34) And I'm like, why is that?
(14:35) Because it's so simple. (14:36) And it's easy to understand. (14:38) And I'm like, yeah, that's sort of what I did.
(14:42) I just inserted myself. (14:43) And then when I saw an opportunity to go there and learn, that's what I did. (14:48) And then it got to a point where I had now learned every single role in this company, except for coding.
(14:55) I don't know anything about coding. (14:57) I don't do it. (14:58) But I can work with developers who are coding and tell them what I need and how to work.
(15:02) I took the time to learn all of the different processes and roles. (15:05) So naturally, when the company went through a transition and it got sold, the new investors and owners were like, well, you've been here for so many years, you run the company. (15:16) Because I knew the ins and outs of the business.
Julian Hayes II
(15:20) Yeah. (15:20) So even do that in the first place to put yourself where you, quote unquote, don't belong.
Sonia Couto
(15:26) But I'm the middle child. (15:27) I don't belong.
Julian Hayes II
(15:29) That's a good point. (15:30) That's a good point. (15:31) See, that's another skill.
(15:32) I hope all middle children out there because sometimes I hear with middle children that I don't fit in or I'm overlooked and everything and all this stuff. (15:40) You just turned a perceived negative into a positive right there.
Sonia Couto
(15:45) Yeah. (15:45) Well, because you're literally stuck. (15:47) And I had two older siblings and two younger, and I was right in the middle of four.
(15:53) So yeah, I had to be like, well, if I want this, I got to go figure it out. (15:57) So I think being a middle child for me was a bonus. (16:01) It was a pro, not a con.
Julian Hayes II
(16:03) Yeah. (16:03) And so that's also gave you confidence, I see. (16:05) Because one thing I would say when somebody is trying to enter a new arena or put themselves out there, whether it's a business or their career, is they have a sense of feeling like an imposter and getting over that.
(16:18) I'm sure that you've talked to a lot of founders and people now at this point that have felt this way as well. (16:23) So what are some advice that you've given them for that?
Sonia Couto
(16:26) Yeah, imposter syndrome. (16:28) Okay, so I used to believe in imposter syndrome. (16:31) And I was like, yeah, I've struggled with imposter syndrome.
(16:35) But now that I am where I am, and I know what I know, and I've taken the time for self-development and processing and working through a lot, I don't believe that it was imposter syndrome. (16:47) I think that it was just me not believing in myself. (16:53) Because imposter syndrome, what does that mean?
(16:56) Fake it till you make it? (16:57) I was still doing the work. (16:59) So I wasn't an imposter.
(17:00) I just didn't believe in myself. (17:02) I was second guessing myself. (17:03) But I was doing the work.
(17:05) And I wasn't faking it until I was making it. (17:07) I was learning as I was going along. (17:10) So I don't think it's imposter syndrome at all.
(17:12) I think it's really about having that curiosity and doing the work. (17:17) Even if you get it wrong, trying it out, doing it, learning from that, and doing it again, and then learning from that and doing it again, until you get to a point where you're like, I'm really good at this.
Julian Hayes II
(17:30) Yeah, I like that. (17:31) I'm actually reading a book or listening to a book now called, I think it's called Six Degrees of Self-Esteem or something like that. (17:39) And so that's very interesting.
(17:41) And there's something in there similar to what he was talking about there in terms of like, a lot of times it's not really you feel like this thing or that is really a issue of self-esteem and belief in yourself. (17:52) And throughout our childhoods or wherever, there's something that caused that. (17:56) And so that's really the crux of that.
(17:58) And so that's very, very interesting. (18:01) Now, one thing that I couldn't gloss over is when you were founding the company, you were diagnosed with breast cancer. (18:10) And so at the very beginning of that thing, how did you even start to grasp with that?
(18:18) Did you fall into, I can't believe this is happening to me or anything, or were you just immediately like, it's a small bump in the road and I'm just going to keep it moving?
Sonia Couto
(18:28) Yeah. (18:29) So I found out I had breast cancer. (18:31) I came to work to the office, and then I went up the street to do my exams.
(18:36) And that's when I got the news. (18:38) And then I got dressed, came back to the office work and went to an award show in the evening. (18:43) It was sort of like, I didn't process it right away.
(18:47) It took me a little while. (18:49) But I kept myself so busy with work and what I was doing that I didn't fully grasp the severity. (18:57) And I think that was a really good thing.
(18:59) There was a couple moments in my journey where obviously I worried and I didn't know what was going on. (19:04) But for me, it wasn't until I got the survivorship title that I started processing what had happened, where I had been. (19:15) Because during it all, I think my brain just numbed it all.
(19:19) And I just kept myself busy, entertained. (19:24) Yeah, it was just different for me. (19:26) I didn't really process it right away.
Julian Hayes II
(19:29) And so I have a question on that. (19:31) Because a lot of times it doesn't even have to be something as severe as cancer or anything. (19:36) It could just be something that's maybe like a chronic illness or ailment or something, or just a bad mishap in business.
(19:41) Maybe you lost your business or something. (19:43) And a lot of times that becomes our identity, and it's hard for us to move on. (19:49) And for you right there, it sounds like it never became your identity.
(19:52) It just became a situation that was with you for a moment. (19:56) And so do you think that's some of the personal development and then also keeping yourself busy? (20:00) Is that kind of how you avoided that?
Sonia Couto
(20:03) Yeah. (20:03) And I knew that my life was going to change. (20:06) And I made a lot of changes because physically, I had to.
(20:11) But I think breast cancer led me to do a lot of self-discovery, a lot of therapy, going through the motions of not knowing where you're going to end up. (20:24) You don't find out what stage you're at right away. (20:27) So I spent a lot of time preparing to die.
(20:30) And when I tell that to people, they're like, what does that mean? (20:33) I wasn't crying. (20:34) I was just like, oh, got to get my affairs in order because if I die, I don't want to be a burden to anybody.
(20:40) So I just kept myself in the motions. (20:43) And I just kept my brain busy. (20:47) So I didn't have time to feel sorry for myself.
(20:51) That's really what it was. (20:52) There was never a point where I was like, poor me. (20:55) What am I going to do now?
(20:57) I'm going to be depressed, and I'm going to be sad. (21:00) I didn't go through those motions at the time.
Julian Hayes II
(21:04) Yeah. (21:04) And so I'm curious after the event, generally when somebody goes through a traumatic event, whether it's a diagnosis and overcoming that or whether it's a near-death experience, they oftentimes have a new lease on life and a new view on life. (21:18) It really snaps them and gets them hyper-focused.
(21:21) So I'm curious for you, what was that thing? (21:24) Did that happen to you in a lot of your priorities change and how you saw life was different?
Sonia Couto
(21:30) Yeah. (21:30) I mean, I don't think I'm the same person that I was prior to being diagnosed with breast cancer. (21:36) I think my mind, my mentality, everything has changed.
(21:41) And that's just because during my journey, I did a lot of work, and then I was forced into therapy. (21:50) And that was really good because therapy helped me deal with the disease, but it also helped me deal with a lot of personal things that I had not processed or dealt with in my past. (22:01) So seven years later, I'm still in therapy because I'm still processing.
(22:05) But what breast cancer did for me was it took me on a journey of changing who I was for the better. (22:13) An example of that is I used to be a control freak. (22:17) And all of a sudden, I'm going through this thing where I cannot control my outcomes.
(22:23) I can't control my life. (22:24) I can't control my schedule because I have to go and do treatment. (22:28) I have to go to surgery.
(22:29) And it made me just change how I function, how I work, how I do my scheduling. (22:35) And I had to rely on other people, which was also something that was really, really hard for me. (22:40) So there was all these areas of my life that I had so much control over that I lost control when I was going through breast cancer.
(22:48) And losing that control really allowed me to open myself up to discover what I could do with that. (22:55) And I was able to really turn all of these weaknesses. (22:59) I call them weaknesses because I was such a control freak in everything.
(23:04) And don't get me wrong, there's still areas of my life where I'm a bit of a control freak. (23:07) My schedule is a thing that if my friend calls me, they're like, you want to go grab a coffee? (23:12) I'll put it on my schedule.
(23:13) Like everything is there. (23:16) That's also because I'm really busy, but it just sort of works for me. (23:19) But I think once I open up to new possibilities, to doing things different, to relying on other people, like my friends would beg me to come pick me up to the hospital because I'm like, nope, I'm going to take an Uber there.
(23:32) And then when I'm done surgery and they let me out, I'll call an Uber and take it home. (23:36) But then I realized I couldn't do that because I was in rough shape. (23:40) So it helped me be more vulnerable as well.
Julian Hayes II
(23:44) Yeah. (23:44) I hear the thing with being a control freak, it's very, or quote unquote, a control freak as they call it. (23:53) I'm a little bit of the same in terms of if I'm going out or there's a dinner, it just puts me at ease.
(24:02) It just puts me at ease because for one, left to my own devices, I'm highly unproductive and I can get lost and easily distracted. (24:11) So that's one thing is just because of my brain and how that works. (24:15) But, and I think it's also a, I don't know, I think I see it in a lot of entrepreneurs that have this thing with just control and trying to control every single thing in their life.
(24:25) And so I'm also curious, that's another thing I'm curious about. (24:29) So to add that to the number that you are on the, in terms of being a child, whatever you are on I'm also curious about this with entrepreneurs, why are they such control freaks? (24:40) You have any theories on that?
Sonia Couto
(24:42) Yeah. (24:42) Well, listen, I think, I think it's just because, you know, they, they're, this is their life. (24:47) This is their livelihood and they, they got into it and now it's either they're going to make it or they're going to fail.
(24:55) And in between those two things, there's a lot, there's, if you fail, there's shame, there's, I told you so, right, that you have to deal with, with the people who told you don't do it because it's not a good idea. (25:07) So the failure thought of it, I think is what really drives people to become such control freaks and like, so dominant on like, I got to make this work where they give up all of their personal time and they become workaholics because failure is almost not an option. (25:21) And you don't want to be ashamed of that failure, right?
(25:25) Because there's probably people who told you don't, don't do that. (25:27) What do you mean you're going to quit your, you know, six figure paying job and you're going to go work for yourself? (25:33) Like who does that, right?
(25:34) So I think entrepreneurs are a little bit, uh, more control freaks than just focus because they have a lot more to lose.
Julian Hayes II
(25:44) Yeah. (25:44) And so, um, one of the things when you talk about therapy and I was back in therapy myself and I noticed that sometimes a lot of our life problems are usually is, well, let me, let me rephrase that. (26:02) A lot of times the problems that we have in business are not really business problems and even like health problems are not necessarily health problems.
(26:08) Most of the time it's really a life problem. (26:11) Uh, do you agree with that? (26:12) What do you think?
Sonia Couto
(26:13) I do. (26:13) I do agree with that.
Julian Hayes II
(26:15) Yeah. (26:15) Um, yes. (26:16) I just found that very interesting that a lot of times, um, I never understood the adage when they said, um, entrepreneurship is one of the greatest personal development journeys that you'll go on.
(26:26) And I definitely wholeheartedly understand that now.
Sonia Couto
(26:30) Yeah. (26:31) It's very therapeutic because you go through so many ups and downs, things that you don't understand that you have to put in the extra work to understand, or you have a business coach who's going to help you understand. (26:43) Cause these are all areas you've never been in before, uh, in, in, in business or in life, or, or maybe you've had some traumas in your childhood that you've just blocked things to these new possibilities and you don't even know how to go about them.
(26:57) Right. (26:58) So entrepreneurship does push you a little further, uh, to, to be more curious and a different work ethic, right? (27:07) Not everyone can, can run a business.
(27:10) Not everyone can. (27:11) Yeah. (27:11) You know how many entrepreneurs I know that are just stuck for years and years and years in that very beginning stage.
(27:19) And I know a lot of tech entrepreneurs that are like, I, I have an idea. (27:23) I built the idea. (27:24) And then that's it.
(27:24) It's just an idea that they've built and they, and they've not been able to execute it from there. (27:29) They're stuck because they won't have, they haven't built out those skills.
Julian Hayes II
(27:34) And so to build out those skills, that's where you think things like, um, it's usually something internal, right? (27:39) Is that what you're thinking?
Sonia Couto
(27:41) Yeah. (27:41) First of all, you know, if, if you can't motivate yourself, then you can't be an entrepreneur. (27:47) Like if you need to have a coach constantly, go, you can do it.
(27:51) Like it's not going to happen. (27:52) If you're, if your partner has to be the person pushing you, then you're not an entrepreneur and you're not really good at business. (27:58) If you only do the work when your partner or someone in your life is pushing you, you have to be able to do that yourself.
(28:05) And if, if you can't, you're not, you're not going to get anything done. (28:09) Like people get stuck in their heads, right? (28:12) And if, if they meet up with a friend and they talk about what's stuck in their head, their friends are like, Oh, have you thought about this, this and that?
(28:19) And all of a sudden they feel really motivated. (28:20) And they're like, yeah, I'm going to go do that. (28:22) And then something else comes up and they get stuck in the head.
(28:25) As an entrepreneur, you have to be able to process and deal with that on your own, without depending a hundred percent on other people. (28:33) Yes. (28:33) It's important to have people in your life that are going to motivate you and coach you, but you have to get to a point where you can do that yourself.
Julian Hayes II
(28:40) Yeah, absolutely. (28:41) That's a very important point. (28:43) And, you know, since we're talking about therapy and mental health in general, and that's something that a lot of entrepreneurs and founders struggle with a lot other than perhaps therapy.
(28:53) What do you think are some other beneficial things for founders in terms of maintaining their mental health and trying their best to be a well-rounded person and well-rounded it's going to mean different things for a lot of us.
Sonia Couto
(29:07) Yeah. (29:07) So I'm going to, I'm a little biased in this. (29:10) I love to read.
(29:12) I read as I I I'm on a mission right now to read one book per month for the whole year. (29:19) And it doesn't matter. (29:21) It can be a, you know, it can be a story.
(29:23) It can be a lesson. (29:25) I just love to read, but I was talking to someone a while back and they told me before I started my reading journey. (29:32) And they said to me, you know, not enough people read, people should read more often.
(29:38) And I'm like, why? (29:39) And they're like, think about it. (29:40) You have wisdom and knowledge from people who lived thousands of years ago, or 20 years ago, or 60 years ago, who have imparted all of this wisdom and knowledge and left it for us.
(29:55) And we're not utilizing it because it's in a book. (30:00) So I was like, that's to me, that was deep. (30:03) I'm like, wow, I like that.
(30:05) You know, I can go and read something that somebody wrote a thousand years ago and like really learn something from it. (30:11) And so I started reading and I started reading different types of books, a lot of like, obviously self-discovery, some therapy books. (30:20) I read a book, amazing book that's called before you can love other people, learn how to love yourself, which is written by a psychologist.
(30:29) And I thought it was very interesting. (30:31) But reading for me has just opened my eyes to so many different perspectives and coping mechanisms and how to process trauma from childhood. (30:43) I feel like from reading these books, I've discovered things about myself and my childhood that I didn't even remember or I haven't fully processed.
(30:51) And now I'm thinking about it and I'm like, okay, I got to really do this. (30:54) So that's it for me. (30:56) It's really reading.
(30:57) I think it's completely changed my world.
Julian Hayes II
(31:02) Yeah. (31:03) So many things right there. (31:04) I'm going to check that book out.
(31:06) That sounds interesting, something I need to read.
Sonia Couto
(31:09) I'll send you the exact name because I think I said it wrong.
Julian Hayes II
(31:13) Okay. (31:13) That's fine. (31:15) The thing with reading also, I wholeheartedly agree with that, is that a lot of times I think whatever stage that you're at with your business journey or career journey, I think a lot of times we can feel like, man, all these things are happening to me.
(31:29) And you might almost get that little bug in your ear that your problems are just one of none others. (31:38) And then the thing is you go through all these different biographies of people in so many different things and you realize, wow, this is really just like a story arc that everyone's story. (31:50) The reason why we admire all these people is because of they had some type of obstacle they had to overcome.
(31:58) Some it's physical, some it's psychological, some it's emotional, and they overcame it to build and do whatever they are doing. (32:06) And so for me now, I start to look at this and try to remind myself, this is just part of my story arc that's going to help someone else years down the line keep going and whatnot. (32:17) And so, and also reading books, even though the people were not there physically, it helped me not feel as lonely because I was like, okay, yeah, there's other people here too.
(32:28) I was like, okay, yeah, I'm not the only one with this. (32:29) And so even if you didn't have like your community of people that really just understood the lifestyle that you're working toward and building, you had these books. (32:38) And I guess me being the only child, I'm a pro at using my imagination in terms of having imaginary friends and all this stuff.
(32:46) And so it was very easy to start doing this with the book. (32:49) And I was like, these are some of my friends. (32:51) I've even named some of the people like this is my uncle, this is some of my cousins, and just like getting crazy like that.
(32:56) And it gave me a little solace in terms of just keep going, especially on the days that it's very hard.
Sonia Couto
(33:02) Yeah, I mean, I yeah, I totally agree with you. (33:06) And I think that's, that's the beauty of books, because you're learning from people who have been there and done it and have been there and done the exact same things that you may have.
Julian Hayes II
(33:16) Yeah, I, you know, as we're talking about your journey and everything, you know, there's a word that just easily sticks out. (33:21) I'm sure listeners are gonna think of this as well. (33:24) And I just hear resilience.
(33:26) And so I'm curious, what does resilience mean to you?
Sonia Couto
(33:30) Resilience to me means being strong, and just getting through it.
Julian Hayes II
(33:37) I like that. (33:38) I like that simple and concise.
Sonia Couto
(33:39) Yeah.
Julian Hayes II
(33:40) Yeah. (33:42) You mentioned earlier about letting go and delegating. (33:46) And I was going to ask you a leadership question.
(33:48) Do you think that's the biggest lesson you've learned about leadership is letting go and delegating? (33:52) Or is there something even more important that you learned?
Sonia Couto
(33:55) I think that is one of the biggest ones. (33:57) I mean, because I was a control freak, that was a big one for me, because the minute I let go, and I started delegating, I realized that, hey, like, I had hired these people to do these jobs, they were qualified for it. (34:11) And I wasn't, but I wasn't letting them.
(34:14) And so I was holding them back by saying, Oh, if you want something done, you got to do it yourself. (34:20) Right. (34:20) So the minute I started letting that go, it was better for me, because now I could focus on my health.
(34:26) And it was better for the team, because it's like, Oh, she's now letting us do the job that she hired us for, number one. (34:33) And then when I my treatment sort of ended, and I came back, and I'm like, Oh, I have so much time, I can do other things that are more important. (34:41) I don't I don't have to go and do that.
(34:43) Oh, well, maybe I'm gonna like start having conversations with people, you know, like, it just it just, and now I like it. (34:50) I don't I don't ever want to go back. (34:52) I'm not a micromanager.
(34:53) I'm like, you have a job to do. (34:55) I trust you. (34:57) Go ahead, you know, be gone.
(35:00) And I can I can focus on doing things that are really going to help us grow and are really important and are the things that I should be doing.
Julian Hayes II
(35:08) Yeah. (35:09) And funny enough, when you hear that a lot of times, if you can hear that leaders, because I come from the health world, you can hear that leaders a lot of times say, I don't have a lot of time to take care of my health, to exercise and all that. (35:21) And a lot of times that they actually just relinquish control a little bit, and stop micromanaging, trying to do everything, just like you just like it freed up your time to explore other activities.
(35:31) That can be for leaders health, and allow them to apply ample amount of time for the physical fitness if they just learn to let go, learn to. (35:40) Yeah. (35:41) So I like that.
Sonia Couto
(35:43) I also think that like, people are really hard on themselves, because we see other leaders getting up at 4am, exercising, having a green smoothie before they go to the office. (35:55) And, you know, by the time they get to the office, they've done like a million different things. (35:59) And I remember there was a point in my life where I'm like, wow, I'm such a failure.
(36:02) Like, I don't how come I can't do that? (36:04) How come I can't wake up at that time. (36:07) And then I really stopped to think about it.
(36:09) And I'm like, okay, one thing that's really important for me and for my body is rest. (36:14) I need to get seven to eight hours of sleep. (36:16) So it is so unrealistic for me to tell myself that I'm going to get up at 4am or 5am and go to a yoga class and make myself a coffee or a green smoothie and all this stuff, right?
(36:27) I mean, I was putting all this pressure on myself. (36:29) And I think it was really discovering a routine that works for me, not based on what everyone else is doing.
Julian Hayes II
(36:36) Right?
Sonia Couto
(36:37) I'm not going to get up at 4am. (36:39) I'm going to get up at 637 and I'm not going to go work out. (36:42) I'm going to take a shower, you know, walk to the office or drive.
(36:46) And then when I get there, I'm going to grab myself a coffee. (36:48) I'm not I'm not going to read a book and write. (36:51) You have to be realistic to what you can and cannot do.
(36:55) Because I think when that when you do that, that's when you start opening yourself up to doing all those other things. (37:01) OK, well, maybe I'm a night owl. (37:03) I'm going to go do it after work because that feels better for me.
(37:07) Or you naturally start getting up an hour earlier and be like, you know what? (37:10) I am going to do this one thing and I'm going to do it every day with consistency. (37:15) I think we just need to stop comparing ourselves to like these big CEOs that have, you know, delegate almost everything and have time to really focus on their health.
(37:26) And I think we have to be really realistic about what we can and cannot do.
Julian Hayes II
(37:30) Yeah. (37:30) And it also gets into the thing of also learning to run your own race. (37:34) And I think a lot of times with with entrepreneurs and people is that sometimes we want to build a company a certain size and you really get down to it.
(37:46) Why do you want to do that? (37:47) And it's like, well, I think I'm supposed to. (37:49) I'm supposed to always want to infinitely scale, just scale, scale, scale, scale, scale completely, even if it's not something that you really want to do, because when you the larger you get, you know, you have a lot more responsibilities and different things and then that might take you out of what you really enjoyed about business.
(38:03) And so a lot of times I think it's important, kind of like you said, to pause and really say, is this really right for me or am I doing this because this is what I think I'm supposed to do?
Sonia Couto
(38:13) Yeah. (38:14) I mean, sometimes I talk to people and they're like, I went into this because I wanted to be a million dollar company and now I'm a billion dollar company and I have no time for my kids and I have all this money, but that's not what the goal was. (38:28) And it's OK.
(38:28) Not you don't have to go that high. (38:32) You just want to be a million dollar company for the next five, six, ten years and have a great life. (38:38) Do it.
(38:39) Right. (38:39) It's OK. (38:40) We don't we don't always necessarily have to keep aiming higher and higher.
(38:44) It's OK to feel comfortable where you are and be happy.
Julian Hayes II
(38:48) Yeah, because there's a lot of people who have a lot and they're still not fulfilled. (38:52) And there's a lot of people who, quote unquote, don't have a lot of the material things and they're way more fulfilled than the billionaire that we look up to.
Sonia Couto
(38:59) Well, also, I think that like the more you have, the more you want or need.
Julian Hayes II
(39:04) Right.
Sonia Couto
(39:04) Now you put yourself at a different scale.
Julian Hayes II
(39:07) Yeah. (39:07) And I find that it's ironic that we come back to we come full circle, kind of what we talked about at the beginning of where like looking at the small wins, thinking about today and just acknowledging those little small things. (39:19) So it's interesting how that works out.
(39:21) I'm curious also now, what what made you start the podcast?
Sonia Couto
(39:26) Podcast, yes. (39:28) So I when I when I was in tech and I started in tech like early and it was a very male dominated space, and when I lost my team, I felt really alone. (39:38) I was really lonely, not like, oh, I don't have any friends, but I'm like, I don't have like anyone to bounce ideas off of.
(39:46) Like, I don't I don't I didn't have anybody. (39:49) And so I went through it like alone and I would go to conferences and I would listen to all of these speakers on stage, but then I would I wouldn't have access to them. (39:58) Right.
(39:58) I could only take notes of what they were saying and and go with it. (40:02) So come full circle today. (40:05) I'm like, well, like I really learned a lot in this space and I I've done a lot.
(40:12) Why can't I create a space with people who have been there and done it and give that information out to people like me, you know, 18 years ago so that they can learn from the people who have been there and done it and not feel so lonely. (40:29) And so, yeah, I started a podcast with CEOs and founders who have sort of gone through that that early stage and that founding journey. (40:39) And everyone has a different story about what they went through and how what it took to get to a million.
(40:46) And did they decide to stay there or go higher and going higher? (40:49) What does that mean? (40:51) And I just I just wanted it to be a place where people could go and listen to other people, you know, give them advice on in areas that there may meet that they might be struggling with.
Julian Hayes II
(41:04) What's been one of the what's been one of the biggest lessons that you've learned from podcasting and talking to so many people?
Sonia Couto
(41:13) Oh, my gosh, I feel like everybody I talk to is a lesson for me. (41:17) It's hard for me to pick one. (41:20) Yeah.
(41:20) Right. (41:21) Wait, is this really selfishly for other people or is this really for me? (41:25) Right.
(41:25) You always get to learn something new, but I think that's what it is. (41:29) You know, you never you never stop learning in this life. (41:33) And I went out on this journey to help other people learn.
(41:37) But the beauty of it is that I get to continue learning and I get to ask the questions that I want to ask. (41:43) And I get to have these like conversations with these wonderful people who are willing to give me their time and talk about their stories and their journeys. (41:52) And like, what else can you ask for in life?
Julian Hayes II
(41:56) Yeah, I mean, if anything, that is the best benefit of it is really just there's so many fascinating people. (42:04) And like you said, stories and stories. (42:08) And then for some reason, I feel like it works out like you end up talking to people at the right time of a lesson or something that or that you're thinking through.
(42:16) And then they just end up talking about it like, oh, that's it. (42:19) That's it. (42:20) It happens every time.
(42:22) Like over the last week, there's been certain themes in my head. (42:26) And like my last three interviews have all like centered around that. (42:30) Yeah, it not directly necessarily, but indirectly through some of the lessons.
(42:34) And so I just found that very fascinating how that works.
Sonia Couto
(42:37) Yeah, I agree. (42:38) I've learned a lot about marketing. (42:41) I thought we were doing a really good job.
(42:43) And then I'll have an interview. (42:44) And I'm like, huh, interesting. (42:45) I didn't know you could do that.
(42:47) Well, after this interview, I got to go talk to my team and figure this out. (42:50) So it's like continuous growth.
Julian Hayes II
(42:53) Yeah, yeah. (42:54) I think for me, one of the big things is it's been, it's been mindset and really being persistent. (43:00) And so I was like, I thought I was persistent and consistent.
(43:03) And then like a lot of my guests have really showed no, there's a whole nother level of persistence and consistency. (43:08) And that's that's been inspiring. (43:10) Yeah, for me.
Sonia Couto
(43:11) I love consistency. (43:13) I'm like the queen of it.
Julian Hayes II
(43:15) Yeah. (43:15) So I've been guilty of the person who really performs well for like two or three days, and then then it's not as consistent, right. (43:25) And so as I'm learning, and I know this concept when it comes to fitness, that a little bit every day, yeah, it's going to go long, then it's because it's the equivalent of somebody working out on Monday for two hours, and then they don't work out the rest of the week.
(43:42) So I'm curious, what does success mean to you?
Sonia Couto
(43:46) Success me, what success means to me is, I say this a lot, and people are probably tired of hearing me say it. (43:53) It's peace. (43:55) It's just being at a place in my life where everything is just working out.
(44:02) I'm and I'm at peace, I'm not stressed out, not running around like a chicken with my head cut off. (44:07) I'm I don't need a whole lot. (44:09) I just want to do what I love every day, and be at peace with myself, and those around me.
(44:18) That's success to me.
Julian Hayes II
(44:20) That's a beautiful, that's a beautiful place to get to. (44:22) And I imagine that therapy, and really getting in journaling, and really getting clear on your values, got you to that place. (44:31) Because I'm sure you probably had something totally different in terms of what success meant before that time.
Sonia Couto
(44:37) Yeah, yeah, for sure. (44:38) And like, yeah, yeah, for sure. (44:41) And it's helped me with like, even relationships.
(44:43) Like I've really, I've really, really, really done the work. (44:47) And it's ongoing work. (44:49) It's consistent, again, consistency.
(44:51) I love it, because I'm doing it all the time. (44:52) But it's really about like, just being consistent. (44:55) Okay, I see a pattern here.
(44:57) And being self aware, like, I know I do this every single time. (45:01) So when are you going to start changing it, Sonia? (45:03) Okay, now, this is the time for me to start changing it.
(45:05) And it was when I started making those changes, which is what I call doing the work, when I really started like, taking what I was reading in books, and what I was getting in therapy, and then seeing, oh, crap, that really does work. (45:17) Oh, did I did I just do that differently? (45:20) I found myself this weekend, I was in a situation where I did something that I would never normally do.
(45:26) And I was talking to someone and I'm like, that's not me. (45:29) But I like it because I went and did something completely different. (45:33) I got out of my comfort zone.
(45:35) And, and, and I was just very, very different person. (45:38) And I'm like, I like this. (45:40) Now I'm seeing the results of all the work.
Julian Hayes II
(45:42) Yeah. (45:43) Yeah. (45:44) Why do you think entrepreneurs struggle so much with relationships?
(45:47) You know, speaking relationships?
Sonia Couto
(45:50) Hi. (45:50) Um, well, I mean, I'm gonna I'm gonna assume to say that it's probably because they don't have a lot of time. (45:57) And I think sometimes, too, I'm not, I'm not saying this about myself.
(46:01) But I actually know a couple people that, because they're entrepreneurs, and they're always looking for success, they expect their partners to be at the same level. (46:10) And I actually know someone where their partner has a job, loves it is content, happy. (46:17) But because he's an entrepreneur, he expects her to get to that level as well and be an entrepreneur.
(46:24) But she's like, I don't want to be like, so that could be another, you know, another thing.
Julian Hayes II
(46:32) And so for the rest of the year, I guess, what are a couple of things that you're looking most forward to for the remainder of this year?
Sonia Couto
(46:40) Going on a vacation, I haven't gone on a vacation since 2020.
Julian Hayes II
(46:43) Oh, wow. (46:44) Okay.
Sonia Couto
(46:45) So going on a vacation, hanging out with my cat.
Julian Hayes II
(46:51) Once again, this sounds like peace. (46:53) So you're very, very consistent, right?
Sonia Couto
(46:56) Yeah, going for a walk, enjoying nature before the winter comes. (47:00) Just nothing, nothing crazy. (47:03) I'm a pretty simple person.
(47:05) Yeah, my piece is so important to me that I don't want to do anything that's going to disrupt it. (47:12) That's not always a good thing.
Julian Hayes II
(47:14) True, but at least you're consistent. (47:17) So you still got consistency right there for you. (47:20) So you are consistent across the board.
(47:24) As we get ready to wrap this up, I've really enjoyed this conversation. (47:27) One of the last questions, or probably the last question I'm going to ask you is someone walks up to you in a coffee shop, and they're promising not to disturb your peace. (47:35) And they're going to ask you, what are three things that I can do today to become a more resilient founder and ultimately succeed against all odds?
(47:44) What are those three things you'll tell them?
Sonia Couto
(47:46) Be curious, for sure. (47:49) Be willing to be self-aware, and if you're not, learn how to be self-aware. (47:55) And learn from your failures and fail, fail, fail over and over and over again.
(48:00) And learn from that and pick yourself up and make it better. (48:03) I think failures is, if you're not failing, you're not learning, you're not doing anything differently.
Julian Hayes II
(48:11) Oh, I love that. (48:12) And where can listeners keep up with you at?
Sonia Couto
(48:15) So I have a website, it's called soniacouto.com. (48:19) And there you can find out everything about me, my work, my podcast, email me, reach out. (48:27) I do a lot of mentorship for women in tech as well, and we're trying to, you know, either start or pivot.
(48:35) So if anybody wants any advice, I always try to get back to people. (48:38) I'm happy to do it.
Julian Hayes II
(48:40) Awesome to hear. (48:41) And I will have those links in the website in there for everyone. (48:44) And until next time, everyone out there, stay awesome, be limitless, and as always, go be the CEO of your health and your life.
(48:50) Peace.
