Paola Telfer on Brain Optimization, Executive Leadership, and Sens.ai
In this conversation, Sens.ai CEO and founder Paola Telfer and Julian Hayes II discussed a myriad of topics, ranging from neurotechnology to executive leadership.
Below is an episode recap with a transcript.
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Embracing Relaxation: Techniques for Parasympathetic Activation
Paola emphasizes the importance of heart coherence as a gateway to parasympathetic activation, a state conducive to relaxation and stress reduction. Simple yet effective breathing patterns, such as the four-second in and seven-second out technique, can induce a profound sense of calm and inner peace.
Paola also introduces the concept of "soft eyes, soft tongue," highlighting the interconnectedness between facial tension and inner narrative. By consciously softening these areas, individuals can alleviate stress and cultivate a harmonious balance between mind and body.
Addressing Burnout
As Sens.AI's user base expands, Paola delves into the unexpected benefits reported by early adopters. Burnout, a pervasive issue today, is a prominent concern among users. Paola explains how Sens.AI's brain training system offers a break from the relentless cycle of beta and delta dominance, fostering a profound shift in cognitive function and emotional resilience. By providing a safe avenue for exploration and self-discovery, Sens.AI empowers individuals to transcend the limitations of burnout and reclaim their vitality.
Unveiling the Power of Neurotechnology
Beyond tangible improvements in cognitive function, Sens.AI catalyzes self-discovery and personal growth. Paola explains how the platform promotes the exploration of the subconscious, offering insights into one's identity and purpose. Sens.AI fosters pro-social behavior and interpersonal connection by integrating neurofeedback with group synchrony. Paola envisions a future where teams, whether in sports or corporate settings, leverage group synchrony to achieve exceptional synergy and collective flow. Through precision engineering and personalized coaching, Sens.AI transcends conventional boundaries, heralding a new era of cognitive optimization and holistic well-being.
Cultivating a Thriving Culture: Lessons in Remote Leadership
Paola emphasizes the importance of nurturing a thriving culture within organizations, especially in the dynamic landscape of remote work. With Sens.AI's distributed team, Paola reflects on the challenges and triumphs of building a cohesive culture. She highlights the significance of prioritizing human connections amidst the hustle and bustle of startup life. Through intentional practices such as team retreats focused on human-centered experiences rather than traditional business meetings, Sens.AI fosters a sense of unity and harmony among its members. Paola's approach underscores the value of integrating empathy, communication, and shared purpose to cultivate a culture of resilience and collaboration.
Insights for Personal and Professional Growth
Paola's journey as a leader offers valuable lessons for individuals navigating their paths in leadership. She candidly shares the common pitfalls that leaders encounter, particularly in startup environments where the pace is frenetic, and demands are multifaceted. Paola highlights the tendency to overlook the human aspect amidst the chaos of daily operations.
Through her own experiences, she emphasizes the importance of empowering others to take ownership of the organizational culture. Leaders can nurture a culture of engagement and innovation by fostering a sense of collective responsibility and alignment with the company's mission. Paola's insights serve as a guiding light for aspiring leaders seeking to balance operational efficiency with human connection and well-being.
Redefining Success
As the conversation unfolds, Paola reflects on the meaning of success, drawing from her roles as a mother, partner, and entrepreneur. Beyond traditional achievement metrics, Paola envisions success as a holistic pursuit encompassing ethical conduct, personal fulfillment, and meaningful relationships. She emphasizes the importance of modeling authenticity and resilience for future generations, highlighting the interconnectedness of professional endeavors and personal values. Paola's holistic perspective invites us to redefine success not merely as the attainment of goals but as the embodiment of integrity, purpose, and relational harmony.
Where to Find Sens.AI
With its innovative approach to cognitive optimization and well-being enhancement, Sens.AI offers a pathway to unlock human potential and foster holistic growth. You can connect with Paola Telfer and Sen.AI on their website, Instagram, or YouTube.
Connect with Paola Telfer & Sens.ai
Website — https://sens.ai/
Instagram— https://www.instagram.com/sens.ai.inc/
Transcript
Paola Telfer
(0:00) I had brain fog from a concussion, and I also had hypervigilance response. (0:07) And so I wasn't able to be present in my relationships, even as a mother, as a wife, and also as a leader, I wasn't able to think as clearly as I had previously. (0:21) And so with that identity, with that ego challenged, you either rise to the occasion, or you sink a little bit.
Julian Hayes II
(0:33) Welcome to another episode of Executive Health and Life. (0:35) I am your host, Julian Hayes II, back at it again with, as I always say, another fascinating guest doing some very, very fascinating things in the world. (0:43) And today we're talking about the brain, which is one of my favorite areas to discuss.
(0:47) And oftentimes, when we think about different entrepreneurs and inventions, we think about companies, and we even think about passions. (0:53) Oftentimes, these start off as a personal need. (0:56) There's some kind of pain point or necessity that we have to do this thing.
(1:00) And my guest isn't any different with that today. (1:03) She's an avid explorer of neuroscience consciousness development and peak states. (1:07) She wants to help you simply master your brain.
(1:09) I am speaking with Paola Telfer, and she is a tech entrepreneur and also the CEO founder of Sens.AI. (1:14) The philosophy there is to simply feel your best and live your best life. (1:19) People need to train their brains and control their states, especially for us entrepreneurs, leaders, and generally ambitious people out there who are just trying to take over the world.
(1:27) Sens.AI provides the technology and training that people need to make it happen. (1:31) And so they're leveraging AI and a couple other things, and I'm not going to give it all away initially. (1:36) So without further ado, thank you so much for joining me today, Paola.
(1:39) How are you doing?
Paola Telfer
(1:41) Thank you so much. (1:42) I'm doing great. (1:43) Thanks so much for having me, Julian.
Julian Hayes II
(1:45) Awesome, awesome. (1:45) And so, you know, I was looking, just researching you a little bit, and I saw that you're into skiing, paddle boarding, hiking, and biking. (1:53) And I couldn't help but notice all those activities are outdoors.
(1:57) So I'm wondering, what's so special about the outdoors for you? (2:00) Is there like a special connection there with you?
Paola Telfer
(2:04) Oh, yeah, definitely. (2:06) And I think for all of us, though, right? (2:08) Like we just, we lose touch with it, for sure, in our very modern world.
(2:14) But I definitely, I grew up in Vancouver. (2:18) So it's, you know, it's a city environment, but still very close to the ocean and the mountains. (2:24) And then the last 10 years moved out to Whistler, which is very much a mountain town, right?
(2:30) So a lot more, like I look out my window, it's all trees and forests. (2:34) I find it's easy to find my inner insight, my inner calm, my creative insight, inspiration, and to shift gears too. (2:49) You know, sometimes when I need to shift between deep focus and more of a chill state, I just find it really grounding.
(2:59) So yeah, I love nature.
Julian Hayes II
(3:01) See, I think I've either read it in a book, or I just had this hunch that you should either live in the mountains or by the ocean, neither of which I'm doing right now. (3:10) But I just have a feeling that usually people that live by the ocean or in the mountains, they give this type of answer of just that there's a special connection and creativity that it does to you.
Paola Telfer
(3:21) I think so. (3:22) I think it's a privilege for sure to be able to do that. (3:24) And I have a hunch that's true.
(3:27) Yeah, I think it's definitely helpful.
Julian Hayes II
(3:29) Yeah. (3:29) So if I go back, I always love this question. (3:32) If I go back to you at maybe, let's say 10 years old, would there be some little clues there that would have said, oh, okay, of course she's doing what she's doing right now.
(3:42) Would that have maxed up?
Paola Telfer
(3:44) Maybe. (3:44) I mean, I think at that age, I really was pretty sure I was going to go and be a doctor. (3:50) It's hard to say how much of that was induced, like externally imposed, and I saw modeled around me.
(3:57) But that was definitely what I held up to be like, wow, that person's contributing. (4:02) They're contributing to other people's health. (4:05) That would be pretty great to be able to be that person.
(4:09) Yeah, always had an interest in health care.
Julian Hayes II
(4:11) Did you have a specific type of doctor already, or you just thought you wanted to be a doctor?
Paola Telfer
(4:18) You know what? (4:20) I liked the concept of doctors without borders at that time. (4:24) I thought that was the be all and end all of altruism in the world.
(4:30) I thought that's a huge contribution.
Julian Hayes II
(4:33) Yeah. (4:34) And so fast forward a little bit, and probably one of the impetus for creating Sens.AI and everything was the accident that you have, right?
Paola Telfer
(4:45) Yeah.
Julian Hayes II
(4:46) And so I think that's a good place to start.
Paola Telfer
(4:50) Yeah, for sure. (4:51) I think there's moments in life that kind of define you, right? (4:57) And for me, that car accident was a time in my life where I hit my rock bottom, where I had my identity, I guess I would say, challenged.
(5:09) All the things that I thought were me, the things that made me me. (5:13) So that included my cognitive abilities. (5:17) So I had brain fog from a concussion, and I also had hypervigilance response.
(5:25) And so I wasn't able to be present in my relationships, even as a mother, as a wife. (5:31) And also as a leader, I wasn't able to think as clearly as I had previously. (5:39) And so with that identity, with that ego challenged, you either rise to the occasion or you sink a little bit, right?
(5:48) And so that was for me a bit of a scramble for a while, for sure. (5:55) It wasn't without struggle. (5:56) And in time, it was many months of trying to figure out how I was going to recover and take charge of my mental health, which was, to be clear, the beginnings of being able to heal myself physically.
(6:14) So first, I needed to get my nervous system under control. (6:18) And then I needed to reclaim my clarity, my focus, and all those things. (6:23) And then I could really let the body heal all the musculoskeletal things.
(6:27) I needed neck surgery. (6:29) It was quite an ordeal for myself and for my family. (6:33) And through that, it became very clear to me that I needed a tool.
(6:40) I benefited greatly from a tool, which was neurotechnology. (6:45) I benefited a lot, and it was not something I was familiar with prior to that need arising in my life. (6:50) And so I became impassioned with making that available to people.
Julian Hayes II
(6:57) And so as you get this done, and you start to feel better, and then, like you said, I guess you realize the benefit that this is done for you. (7:08) And so now this is the start of Sens.AI, correct? (7:11) And so when you're going about that, how did you even come up with the concept?
Paola Telfer
(7:16) Yeah, I mean, I kind of think of any kind of problem solving, there's at least a couple of phases to it, right? (7:28) So one of them is that open, very expansive phase where you're just taking in a lot of information before you go into that more focused, like, okay, I got to figure this one thing out. (7:39) You go very narrow.
(7:40) So first, it's that zoom out. (7:43) And in that zoom out phase, I was just learning. (7:46) I was learning everything I could.
(7:48) I was so curious. (7:49) I wanted to know everybody who knew anything about this whole arena that was new to me. (7:56) And so it was a process of meeting people, of reading studies, kind of putting the pieces together.
(8:03) And that took a really long time, like years.
Julian Hayes II
(8:10) And so what is exactly, I guess, the product that it is now, right now? (8:16) Right. (8:18) I don't think I've ever discussed on the podcast anything around this area of neurofeedback, neurotechnology that much.
(8:26) So this is probably new to a lot of people. (8:28) So I guess let's start at the fundamental level.
Paola Telfer
(8:32) Yeah, let's do that. (8:33) So fundamentally, when we talk about neurotechnology, there's two umbrellas in particular. (8:41) And one is neuromodulation.
(8:43) And the other one is just measurement, right? (8:46) So neuromodulation is when you're trying to change the brain. (8:49) And in particular, the brain waves which dictate the brain state or correlate with the brain state.
(8:55) And then the other one is measuring. (8:57) And so measuring, you can think of like fMRIs, right? (9:01) And things like that.
(9:02) Something that gives you a snapshot of the brain and its function and its health. (9:07) So when we talk about neuromodulation, changing the brain, there's two different umbrellas under that. (9:14) And one of them is about changing the brain temporarily.
(9:18) It's stimulating the brain. (9:20) So we call it neurostimulation. (9:22) And the other one is about changing the traits of the brain, teaching the brain how to enter different patterns of brain waves and how to self-regulate, okay?
(9:36) So brain stimulation and brain training. (9:40) Those are the two umbrellas under the whole umbrella of neuromodulation and changing the brain. (9:46) And so when I was approaching this from a product perspective, each of these fields, each of these pieces has a role, has a very important role.
(9:58) And so what we did is we combined into one system, wearable, all three of these elements. (10:05) And that was really important to do in my view once I understood the field in that it was important for us to be able to create a closed loop system. (10:17) A closed loop system that would personalize for each brain.
(10:21) And it would give people the best of the two worlds, stimulation and training. (10:25) Because stimulation gives you the feeling that you want in that moment, in that day. (10:32) And man, we all want that all the time.
(10:34) That's why we have wine. (10:36) It's why we have coffee, this sort of thing. (10:38) And it also gives you the benefit of brain training, which is the long-term trait changes, which is why we meditate.
(10:47) So we're trying to combine those two things into what I think is the ultimate stack for brain training. (10:56) And how to get some self-knowledge and some self-regulation and learn how to shift states for the task at hand.
Julian Hayes II
(11:06) Okay. (11:07) And so I'm hearing this and I'm going to say, I'm going to pretend I'm a typical, let's say, just, I guess, an entrepreneur or just a leader or something in some sort of role. (11:18) And I'm pretty healthy.
(11:20) I feel pretty good. (11:22) So how would I even know that I need this? (11:25) Or how would I even know that this is going to benefit me if I'm already feeling, I feel good already?
Paola Telfer
(11:32) Yeah, that's a great question. (11:35) Because for sure, when you're new to this arena and you don't know what's possible, that's a very common first take. (11:43) And so what I would say is, the first thing I would share is that these tools have actually been used by peak performers in the athletic setting and in the executive leadership setting behind closed doors for decades.
(12:03) And they've been doing this at elite clinics and paying big dollars for it. (12:09) And so that is sort of a, it's an unfair advantage almost, right? (12:12) Like in a great way, right?
(12:14) So people are bettering themselves, spending money on it, spending time on it because they want that edge because they know that they can optimize more and more and more. (12:23) So that's the kind of clinic that I came across when I was at my rock bottom. (12:29) And for me, it was more of a dire straits, like, but in addition to helping me to find that harmony in my nervous system and to find that inner calm again, it also, that was the aha for me.
(12:45) It also helped me to improve my focus. (12:48) It improved my IQ. (12:50) And I was able to tap into creative insight better as a leader.
(12:56) And so that is the impetus behind Sens.AI. (13:00) For those that choose to put in the time, because it's not a pill, right? (13:06) It's something that you would spend 15 minutes, three to five times a week doing, just like going to the gym.
(13:12) So if you're compelled to go to the gym and make your body fitter, it's the same sort of idea with the brain. (13:18) You can make your brain fitter.
Julian Hayes II
(13:21) So if I heard that correctly, we do this a couple of times a week or we do this type of training?
Paola Telfer
(13:26) Three to five.
Julian Hayes II
(13:27) Three to five times a week?
Paola Telfer
(13:28) Yeah.
Julian Hayes II
(13:29) Oh, that's not bad. (13:30) It's not bad at all.
Paola Telfer
(13:32) For sure. (13:32) And we, I mean, I would say we have about 3,000 people on our platform right now. (13:36) We've only been in the market six months.
(13:39) And, but there are some super users and the super users are doing it more than once a day. (13:45) And so the results will vary depending on how often you use it. (13:49) But yeah, twice a day is great.
(13:52) Once is also very good.
Julian Hayes II
(13:54) So I imagine this could be, so for example, myself, I meditate and visualize morning and night. (13:59) First thing in the morning, last thing before I go to bed. (14:02) And so that's probably an ideal time, I would imagine for it to do this.
(14:06) Exactly, exactly.
Paola Telfer
(14:07) Yeah. (14:07) And you know what? (14:08) If you are a meditator, it will be that much more natural for you.
(14:12) So really, I mean, let's talk about the brain training piece in particular. (14:16) I mean, I have the headset here. (14:19) So what you'll see here in the middle, these are electrodes and they're just sensors.
(14:25) So they're just reading, right? (14:27) They're not writing. (14:28) So they're reading your brainwaves with very high precision, very high fidelity.
(14:35) And all it's doing, so that it's not that scary, it's actually just feeding it back to you. (14:43) It's feeding it back to you in a way that you can experience your brainwaves in real time. (14:49) And so the magic of it is that you are then able to become more self-aware and you're able to self-regulate better.
(14:59) And so it's really just removing the intermediary between you and the bio-signals, which have mostly been invisible to us. (15:07) And that is of the brainwaves. (15:08) And it's not dissimilar to what we do in meditation.
Julian Hayes II
(15:12) So I have two things right there. (15:15) So the first one is, it's a very out of left field comment that is probably gonna show how much of a geek I am. (15:21) But when I see that helmet, the thing I think of is, I think of Professor X in X-Men.
(15:26) When he goes into the, when he goes into, I think it's called, I forgot the name of the room, but he goes into the room, he puts that on and you start to see inside his brain and he has all these connections going on and he sees everyone in the world. (15:39) That's what I'm thinking in my head. (15:41) So that's my out of left field comment.
(15:43) Now, secondly, you mentioned measurement. (15:47) And so person probably wants to know tangible, how do I know this is gonna work? (15:52) But I also hear resilience also, that when you're doing this and you're talking about being able to self-modulate a little better, I hear like this is gonna lead to enhanced resiliency, which can carry over into the real world.
Paola Telfer
(16:06) Yeah. (16:06) Oh, yeah. (16:07) So I mean, the measurement piece is actually, so my educational, like my bachelor was in electrical engineering.
(16:15) So I too feel the same way about, is this thing gonna work? (16:19) I felt the same way when I first started doing neurotech tools I was thinking, am I wasting my time? (16:24) Is this thing working?
(16:25) Do I feel something? (16:26) How do I measure this objectively? (16:28) And you can even show me that, my brainwave power is going up.
(16:33) I'm still quite unsatisfied with that answer. (16:36) I wanna know that my life is changing. (16:38) And so we added something that's relatively complex and you would see it in the case included, it's a controller.
(16:48) It's about the size of like a Nintendo Switch. (16:51) It's got a couple of push buttons and then this very rudimentary screen cause that's really all you need. (16:57) So we tried to do all of this as low cost as possible with still maintaining efficacy.
(17:01) And our focus is really on the precision of the engineering. (17:06) And so what this does is it tests you with a very specific task. (17:11) And in lab environments, the task is called a flanker test.
(17:15) And it's within a category of testing called event-related potentials, ERPs. (17:22) Now that all sounds kind of a little bit deep and nerdy, but what it is, it's a 15 minute test that you can take while you're wearing this headset and these sensors are reading your brain activity. (17:37) And so what it's doing in effect is it's looking at the perception of new information as it comes in through your visual cortex and then you classify it.
(17:47) Is it important or is it not? (17:48) You make a decision on it. (17:50) I'm gonna push the right button or the left button or I'm gonna do nothing.
(17:54) And then it looks at your reaction time and it also looks at your error rate and your accuracy. (18:02) And so this flanker test was actually chosen because it's the best analogous test within the ERP family to what a performer, a peak performer would wanna see, right? (18:16) How is my error rate being reduced?
(18:19) How's my reaction time increasing? (18:21) How is my thinking speed, right? (18:23) That decision time improving, right?
(18:27) And overall, right, am I getting sharper, right? (18:32) And so we've been able to get information. (18:37) So we're generally able to improve reaction time like 7.5% on people who are coming in to improve sleep. (18:47) So we have a sleep mission, which is like five weeks, five to eight weeks. (18:51) And after one month, they're improving their reaction time by 7.5%, improving their thinking speed by 7.5%. And incidentally, getting to a level of people on par with people who don't have the sleep issue. (19:07) So it's actually improving their brain function, all right?
(19:12) So, I mean, when you're not sleeping well and you know this as a coach, right? (19:16) Everything's foggy. (19:17) You're a little bit more irritable.
(19:19) You're not making the greatest decisions. (19:21) And so, and it could be measured with reaction time and thinking speed.
Julian Hayes II
(19:26) Well, that's pretty cool. (19:27) That's really cool right there. (19:28) Cause I mean, I've done a, I do a couple of those different brain things, brain trainings where you're measuring reaction time and so forth.
(19:37) And so I like that component that's incorporated in there. (19:39) You mentioned emissions on there. (19:41) And so we talked about sleep.
(19:42) What are some other missions?
Paola Telfer
(19:44) Yeah, it's really, when we were looking at neurotechnology and saying, okay, how do we make this accessible for regular people at home? (19:53) So assuming people don't have a clinical condition, otherwise they definitely should go to a clinic. (19:59) But what we needed to do was to systematize it.
(20:02) And so, and we needed to gamify it because there is habit changing required, right? (20:07) And you know that as a coach, right? (20:08) So you need to have it be fun, engaging.
(20:12) And so people can have, they're self-motivated to do it. (20:16) And so I would describe the missions as having three levels and they unlock, right? (20:21) So three general levels.
(20:22) There's actually, I think five levels, but, and we talk about them as me, we, and all. (20:29) And so at the me level, you are, you're addressing any sort of issues that are blocking you. (20:36) That would include sleep.
(20:37) That would include brain fog. (20:40) It would include attention, attention mastery, stress management, right? (20:46) And so we address those first and foremost before moving on to the next level, which we would call we, and that's more where I want to optimize my contribution in the world, right?
(20:58) I'm a maker. (20:59) I want, I'm a leader. (21:01) So we, there we have creative insight, mindfulness, right?
(21:06) Deeper levels of concentration. (21:08) And then above that is the all level. (21:12) And that's where we are doing some deeper meditative work.
Julian Hayes II
(21:18) Okay. (21:20) And is that where this heart coherence, cause I noticed that was one of the other things that was included because on there, it's a five in one brain training system, right? (21:31) And so the heart coherence is one of those five.
Paola Telfer
(21:35) Correct. (21:35) That's exactly right. (21:36) Thanks for bringing that up because yeah, we didn't want to be, the world's already so head heavy, right?
(21:45) We didn't want to be just a brain system. (21:47) We would be missing it if we didn't bring the heart into it. (21:51) The heart brings in the nervous system.
(21:53) It brings in the body, the embodiment. (21:56) And so what's interesting is that we're all measuring HRV. (22:00) So with the Oura ring, with the whoop, and we're all trying to increase our HRV. (22:05) So the fact is that you can train it up by doing heart coherence training. (22:12) So we think of it as it's biofeedback with your heart rate variability. (22:16) And so that's included here with the sensor that we have on the left ear cup right here.
(22:23) And so like, so right here, you would be reading the heart rate. (22:27) We convert it into heart rate variability. (22:29) And then we give you on the app a resonance breathing pattern that is adapting to your heart rate in real time.
(22:38) And so you would train in that. (22:40) And then you would learn how to get into heart coherence in your day. (22:45) Because ultimately we're trying to, we don't want a dependency on the headset.
(22:50) The headset is a training tool for your day.
Julian Hayes II
(22:54) Okay. (22:54) And so, and what you mean by that is the stuff that you're learning in there is the things that you want us to be able to take out, say it's a, we have a random 1.30 meeting and it's 1.15 and we're getting ourselves in that space to go present, right? (23:09) And we're using some of the tools that we've gotten from the device here.
Paola Telfer
(23:14) That's right. (23:14) All these things are, it's teachable. (23:17) You can learn how to shift brain states for the task at hand.
(23:23) And the heart coherence piece has to do with the nervous system and building resilience. (23:28) So you mentioned resilience before. (23:29) So that's actually foundational.
(23:31) So for us, we have that at the knee level, but it's always available. (23:35) So like some of the other programs, they have cooldowns for neurological recovery, but the heart coherence is always available. (23:43) And we want to encourage that as much as possible because so many of us are stuck in beta states.
(23:50) And when I say beta, it's that analytical thought where most of my information is coming from my senses. (23:55) I'm more concerned about the outside world. (23:57) I'm less embodied and in touch with my inner world.
(24:01) Alpha, which heart coherence is correlated with, is the next level down, if we're thinking of it as the brainwaves slowing, right? (24:12) And heart coherence gets you more into an embodied, relaxed state. (24:18) And that's where we want to be when we want to be with family, with friends.
(24:22) And frankly, we need more alpha and heart coherence even at work when we're engaging with people, right? (24:28) We wanna be able to zoom out to see the human in front of us, right? (24:33) To actually be open and not so task-oriented, which beta can keep us very task-oriented and less of a pleasure to be around sometimes, right?
Julian Hayes II
(24:44) Yeah, so this is definitely a productivity hack and I think a relationship enhancer indirectly because being in this state, like you said, you're gonna be much more pleasant to be around. (24:56) You're gonna be a better leader because you're able to communicate more effectively. (24:59) Your energy is gonna be better.
(25:00) So people are going to receive that and feed off of that much better. (25:04) And so I think that's a very good point there. (25:07) And since we're on this, I guess the ones that we haven't covered yet in terms of the types of brain training, have we covered them all yet?
Paola Telfer
(25:15) No, yeah, I can run you through them for sure because I think it's very interesting. (25:20) So the brainwaves, first of all, they're all present. (25:23) There's five bands that are defined with the Greek alphabet is used to describe each of the bands, the brainwave bands.
(25:32) And from fastest to slowest, they are gamma, then beta, alpha, theta, and then delta. (25:40) And what you would find is that most people are actually always very beta dominant and then go straight into delta for sleeping. (25:50) And we don't find the middle ground in between where there's a lot of the juice of life.
(25:58) And really that is where we will come in touch with our intuition. (26:03) And we don't even typically have a lot of gamma, the one that's the highest, where we'd find a lot of eureka moments. (26:12) And so those are the ones that we want to be able to train and to be able to shift into, especially as leaders.
Julian Hayes II
(26:20) Yeah, and so it's probably safe to say, and I'm thinking from a creative standpoint as well, how critical it can be to get at these things. (26:28) But in the world of entrepreneurship, you know this as well, a lot of times, probably our nervous systems are highly imbalanced at that point, and we're probably super, super sympathetically dominant and driven. (26:41) And so it's very hard to get in that relaxing, parasympathetic state, I guess for yourself.
(26:46) And then we can talk about a little bit related to the device here. (26:49) How do you kind of shift that and get yourself in that state?
Paola Telfer
(26:55) Yeah, definitely. (26:56) I mean, so it would be heart coherence is one of the easiest ways to do that. (27:02) Whether you are using the headset or not, ultimately there's breathing patterns that we can do.
(27:11) So one of the suggestions I would have is to do a four seconds in, seven seconds out breathing pattern. (27:18) It doesn't have to be for very long. (27:20) It can just be for a few minutes.
(27:22) And the out breath is a little bit longer than the in breath by design. (27:26) And that brings you more into the balance of the nervous system. (27:32) And a little trick I would add to the breathing by itself would be, we talk about in our app, soft eyes, soft tongue.
(27:41) We don't realize how much tension we hold in our faces. (27:44) And so the softening of the eyes helps us to zoom out. (27:51) Sometimes we're holding tension in the eyes and it's because we're so focused.
(27:56) It's quite interesting how unconscious that is. (27:59) And then same with the tongue, that's connected into our inner narrative, our inner critic, right? (28:05) So as soon as we soften those, that really helps us to relax out of beta.
Julian Hayes II
(28:10) You just got me thinking right there in terms of like my posture, even right now, of just like, do I feel relaxed right now? (28:17) And then even my tongue, and I was probably a little more tense than I even realized. (28:22) Yeah.
(28:24) And so have you had a lot of feedback around like burnout and those types of things? (28:30) Have you heard a lot about that?
Paola Telfer
(28:33) Yeah, actually, especially with our early beta users, that was often the folks that we were working with and people I knew as well, that were really burned out because of that pattern, that beta dominant and then delta dominant pattern, back and forth, back and forth, missing out all the stuff in the middle and not being able to shift gears without wine or nicotine or whatever addictions, right? (28:59) And so people were just not, they needed something to help them to make that shift really from an external perspective. (29:08) And then that would, like with us, with alpha would be quite dramatic and people were pretty excited.
Julian Hayes II
(29:18) Yeah, and so I know it's been early in the process so far, but I'm curious if you have maybe a couple of things that have come to mind, even if you just heard it once, that's been kind of a shock to you. (29:30) What's been some of the most, I would say unexpected benefits that has come from this whole ordeal in terms of hearing back from people and they're like, wow, I can't believe this happened or I can't believe this is happening in my life or I feel this way.
Paola Telfer
(29:46) You know, yes, the feedback from customers has been really quite delightful and surprising. (29:55) I think as an entrepreneur, you're always a little bit insecure, right? (29:59) Like you're just like, oh, I built this thing.
(30:01) I hope it helps one person, right? (30:02) And it's been quite a great number of testimonials that have been just offered up to us without us asking. (30:09) So people do feel the life change.
(30:12) So one example, maybe just from the data, I would say I was surprised at how many people do the sleep mission first. (30:21) So there is a chronic sleep problem in our society and even for peak performers, like what is largely our base, that is the biggest impediment. (30:32) You know, we can't sleep at night.
(30:33) We got inner chatter going on. (30:35) We're still problem solving. (30:36) We can't relax.
(30:38) It's almost like we're hypervigilant. (30:41) There's too much going on, right? (30:42) And think like we are constantly bombarded with the fear news cycle.
(30:48) We got notifications going off. (30:51) We're doom scrolling, you know, blue light from TV. (30:56) We're living a very unnatural life and our circadian rhythm is affected.
(31:01) And so that's an area that people need help with. (31:06) And it's not a pathology. (31:09) It's actually just like a problem that regular high functioning people have.
Julian Hayes II
(31:14) Yeah. (31:15) And I always like to ask this question as well, kind of around this as well with a lot of entrepreneurs and you mentioned highly functioning people. (31:22) And it's this concept of identity.
(31:24) A lot of times that causes the stress in terms of how do you separate work from personal and not get that mixed up in kind of your overall work? (31:33) Because a lot of times I think that can be kind of the issue of stress.
Paola Telfer
(31:40) Right. (31:42) Yeah, and I think so a couple of things. (31:45) For me, my work and my personal life are completely intermingled.
(31:50) So my husband and I work together in the company. (31:55) The mission of Sens.AI is very much a personal mission. (31:59) So we live and breathe it very happily.
(32:02) But with regards to self-worth, I think that's a separate issue. (32:06) That's a separate question. (32:08) So knowing who you are as separate from what you do and what you're trying to contribute to the world.
(32:19) So whether or not what you're trying to contribute is well-received or you get whatever signs of success that you expect or hope for. (32:27) Knowing who you are and that you are worthwhile by the mere function that you are a human and that you are more than just this body and that you are a being that's important and connected to the whole of humanity. (32:47) That is critical.
(32:50) And I think it's critical to have that in your work. (32:56) I think it makes your work better if you are not tying... (33:00) You're not needy, right?
(33:01) You're not tying your identity to, please like this, please, please, right? (33:06) It's more of a, this is naturally coming from me. (33:10) And I hope it's an offering and I hope that people will enjoy that.
(33:14) But I still am.
Julian Hayes II
(33:17) Yeah, I tend to also think when you talk about neediness and everything, but I tend to think that the more you force something and you're just like suffocating the goal and the thing and you don't give it time to breathe and you just become very repellent. (33:28) And it feels like when you don't need anything, that's when it all happens. (33:33) And so it's a very weird paradox there.
(33:35) I mean, sure I have the desire, but I think there's a fine line that you start to walk in that whole avenue. (33:41) And so it's definitely something I had to learn as a creator since I've done a lot of writing and you want everybody to like read this thing, but you just have to create it and then just move on to the next thing and let the universe just do its thing and let bygones be bygones. (33:54) So, speaking on the whole health aspect, what are some of your top health practices that helps keep you aligned?
Paola Telfer
(34:02) Yeah, well, I definitely guard my sleep very much. (34:06) And so I use blue light blockers during the day. (34:12) I do like infrared as well, infrared like for the body.
(34:19) And I use PEMF as well, like a PEMF body mat as well. (34:23) And that's leftover from my motor vehicle accident and just looking after my musculoskeletal system. (34:29) And anyone who does a lot of physical activity would benefit from the infrared light and the PEMF on the body.
(34:40) The other tool I like, I like the NanoVi. (34:43) It's, I can't bring it into shot, but it's basically like a cellular repair oxygen. (34:50) It goes in through your nose, you breathe it in.
(34:55) And of course, I do brain training every day. (34:59) So I love the, you know, sometimes in addition to brain training, I would do just stimulation. (35:07) So we have infrared light that goes through the skull.
(35:11) And so that's also really helpful. (35:14) One of the programs that we have in particular, it looks at your brainwave patterns in the alpha ones, looks at where you're resonating. (35:23) And that's called the peak alpha frequency.
(35:26) So somewhere between alpha band is somewhere between eight and 12 Hertz. (35:31) So let's say you're resonating at nine and a half. (35:34) We would look at that nine and a half and we would tweak it up a little bit.
(35:39) And what that feels like is it feels like a nootropic effect. (35:43) So it feels a little bit like a smart drug. (35:46) It's a temporary effect, but it just, it gets you that much sharper for the next six hours or so.
Julian Hayes II
(35:57) And speaking of Sens.AI, what do you see as the, I guess, what are some of your desires for it in the future?
Paola Telfer
(36:05) Yeah, I mean, you know, one of the things that you were touching on was, you know, relationships, right? (36:14) You were talking about that. (36:15) So in addition to being a tool that hopefully leads into self-knowledge, right?
(36:21) So helping you create more beautiful things, but in the process, helping you discover who you are. (36:26) It's a safe way to explore your subconscious. (36:30) The next level of it for me is group, right?
(36:34) So besides having, you know, we have a pandemic of, you know, people having an inability to control their focus. (36:43) In addition to that, we have a pandemic of loneliness, right? (36:46) And the root, the source of a lot of this is mind.
(36:52) And there's a correlation with our brain as an organ. (36:55) And so with Sens.AI, we have the ability that we've built in from the ground up to do group synchrony. (37:05) And group synchrony is where teams can get in flow, whether they're teams that are playing together on the field or they're corporate teams, or it could be families, right?
(37:17) And so we're able to not just measure that, but to help to stimulate the teams towards that. (37:24) And so what that looks like in practical terms is it's really just pro-social behavior. (37:31) It's about people having less misunderstandings, having more intuitive knowledge of each other, being able to finish each other's sentences, right?
(37:44) You know, understanding where that guy is gonna be in the field next and anticipating how we're gonna flow together. (37:52) And so it leads to better team outcomes. (37:54) And so it's an area of study.
(37:57) It's been studied for some decades. (38:00) And I would say that typically the way it's studied is it's just measured. (38:05) So you would look at people who are students that are working together, or they've looked at the synchrony between a mother and a child, or they've looked at people at events.
(38:18) I think there was one study around firewalking, and the spectators versus the firewalker, et cetera, and looking at the synchrony of people's hearts and brains. (38:29) And so historically it's been looked at from a measurement perspective, but the tools have been quite clumsy, right? (38:36) And so Sensei is very centered on engineering.
(38:40) We're very precise in our measurement, in our timing. (38:43) So we aim to contribute to group synchrony by not only providing very precise timing, but helping induce and train group synchrony with very precise feedback, neurofeedback. (38:58) So that's gonna be just a really fun thing to do with teams that are really working to great and even greater outcomes.
(39:08) I think that's the next for Sensei.
Julian Hayes II
(39:11) And building up Sens.AI so far, what's been perhaps one of the two biggest lessons for you so far in terms of just from a founder?
Paola Telfer
(39:22) Yeah, building a team that is international and distributed. (39:29) Everybody's working from home, right? (39:31) And we decided really early on that we were gonna, even before COVID, Corey and I, my co-founder, we knew we wanted to build a team that had flexibility.
(39:40) The same as we'd always wanted when we were working for other people. (39:44) We wanted our team to be flexible, work from home, be happy, and live wherever they wanted. (39:49) But doing that and maintaining a culture is another, it's its own challenge, right?
(39:55) So part of that is to do with hiring practices, right? (39:58) How do you make sure you're hiring the right people so that it's easy for us to synchronize remotely? (40:04) So that's just laying the right seeds.
(40:07) But then the other piece we added that I learned over time is we added a coach into our team. (40:14) And not just any coach, he's like fantastic. (40:18) He's a doctor, a medical doctor, and also a functional medicine doctor, Dr. Mark Atkinson. (40:26) And he's just someone who, him and I are just really aligned on the mission of Sens.AI and all the messaging of Sens.AI. (40:36) And so he's quite integral to that. (40:38) But he coaches each and every one of our team members, including our leadership team.
(40:43) So that includes our customer care people and how they feel, how they communicate, and how they think through any customer care queries that come in. (40:57) So that has just been a very thoughtful process of we need to embody and live what we are promoting. (41:06) Mm-hmm.
Julian Hayes II
(41:06) Yeah, that was gonna be part two of it, actually, in terms of once you said that it's all remote and it's all over, is that's the thing I'm curious about, when I get to that stage and you start really building this out, and can you create that kind of culture without physically being around each other every single day and still maintaining a lot of those principles? (41:32) So that's really good to hear on that.
Paola Telfer
(41:35) There's another element that we're doing for the last few years is getting together once a year. (41:43) If we had more budget, I would do it twice a year. (41:47) And I think as we scale, we will have to do that because just by the nature of getting bigger, it'll be more difficult.
(41:53) So we would get together. (41:55) And that event that we do, we consider it a retreat. (41:59) And we only are together as humans.
(42:01) There's no PowerPoint. (42:03) The only business talk is things that people are human-centered like, why did we do it this way? (42:09) Or we're having experiences, we're trying new programs, we're doing things like that together.
(42:13) But mostly we're doing all the things that are in nature. (42:17) We're kayaking, we're going to outdoor concerts, we're all living in one house. (42:23) That's the way we've done it so far.
(42:24) We're meditating together. (42:26) We're cold plunging and doing sauna, picnics on the beach, that sort of thing. (42:31) So we spend a week like that together and it really seems to harmonize the team.
Julian Hayes II
(42:37) Mm-hmm, yeah. (42:39) And for leaders out there who are maybe early on their leadership journey or maybe just new in terms of building a team and everything, and they're really trying to iron out this culture thing. (42:51) What do you think is maybe you can just share one or you can share a couple of kind of the biggest mistakes that you've seen or reasons why sometimes leaders cannot get the culture thing right in terms of getting everybody in coherence and cohesion?
Paola Telfer
(43:06) I think it's because we get so busy. (43:09) We get so busy because there's so much to do, especially in a startup environment where everyone's doing three jobs at a time by necessity. (43:19) We get so busy and sometimes we lose sight of the human aspect.
(43:23) And you might notice that somebody maybe is feeling down that day, but you don't feel like you have a few minutes to give them a call. (43:32) And I think that's where it starts slipping. (43:35) So I think the solution to that that I've come across inadvertently is that other people in the company start taking ownership of the culture.
(43:44) And I noticed that start happening with the team retreats, that someone said to me, I can see why we take so long to hire because everybody that's here is so great, right? (43:57) And it just, it fits. (43:59) Everybody believes in the mission.
(44:00) Everybody's living it. (44:01) Everybody's really striving for personal development, et cetera. (44:04) And no one's like balking at, we're doing group meditation sessions and sound baths and nobody's like going, oh gosh, please show me a PowerPoint instead, right?
(44:14) So it fits. (44:17) And then they started saying, hey, I think what we could do better in the hiring process is this and this. (44:22) And why don't I take it on?
(44:24) And I was like, oh my gosh, it's finally clicking. (44:27) It's spreading beyond just our core leadership team having the accountability of that culture.
Julian Hayes II
(44:34) Okay. (44:35) And so as we get ready to kind of wrap this up here, kind of a few random questions is, what does success mean to you?
Paola Telfer
(44:47) I mean, ultimately, I'm a mother. (44:50) I have a 14 year old son. (44:55) And also I work with my husband, like I mentioned.
(44:59) So I think I want to, I want to be able to look at my son in the eyes after 10 years from now, 20 years from now, and feel like he's watched this whole process that I've conducted myself with ethically. (45:19) We've built something beautiful that we're proud of. (45:23) My husband and I are still in love and happy to be together, right?
(45:29) We don't hate each other, right? (45:31) Because we work so much together. (45:33) And that he sees that we've modeled something that is achievable with all its rough edges as well, right?
(45:42) That we've actually lived what we are promoting. (45:47) And we're saying, yes, sometimes things aren't perfect. (45:50) And we welcome it.
(45:52) We allow those aspects of ourselves. (45:56) And we are learning from that. (45:59) And so I think it is about that.
(46:01) It's about how I will see myself in my son's eyes. (46:04) That's how I see it right this minute anyway.
Julian Hayes II
(46:06) Yeah, I'm curious, working together. (46:10) Any advice for those out there who couples are going to work together?
Paola Telfer
(46:16) Yeah, I mean, Jeff and I have been together since we were like very young. (46:21) And so we know each other very well. (46:23) We didn't embark on working together until we knew we could handle it.
(46:28) Our relationship had already been through a lot of things. (46:31) And we were like, yeah, we could definitely do this. (46:34) And secondly, it's because the mission was so important to him and me that he was like, it's something I definitely want to be a part of, right?
(46:45) Like he wanted to be a part of it. (46:46) And it made a lot of sense. (46:48) And I think that it's also about delineating where is his play area and where's my play area.
(46:56) And knowing one of the things, the other aspects is so that everybody feels good about their piece. (47:06) And it's not about one person being someone else's boss. (47:10) It's not about someone telling someone else what to do.
(47:14) So there's great skills that everybody's bringing to the table. (47:18) And as long as there's respect for that and there's space for that, I think that's really great. (47:22) The other aspect is around what you bring home, right?
(47:25) And it's about what do you talk about at the dinner table? (47:31) And there's a lot of aspects of the work we do together that are exciting to both of us. (47:36) And so if it's good news and it's exciting and it's interesting and it's expansive, it's fair game at the dinner table.
(47:44) If it's anything where we are tasking each other or asking each other for help on something, there's a problem or there's work to be done that can wait until we have a meeting time.
Julian Hayes II
(47:59) And so I hear on this really, whether you're building culture with a bunch of people or if it's just the culture or just building your relationship with your partner or anything, really the mission, having a strong mission and purpose that everybody understands and is connected to and is behind, really can cover a lot of bases and really smooths out the process on a lot of things, it seems.
Paola Telfer
(48:30) Yes, absolutely, absolutely. (48:32) And then one of the greatest things, like when things go up and down and things get crazy busy, and you mentioned the customer testimonials before and just sometimes reading some of those, that can lift up the whole day, right? (48:48) And some of them are, the ones I love are when it's about their relationships with their spouse or their kids.
(48:55) And it's like, wow, I realized one guy is like, I'm talking half as much and I'm listening more and it feels so natural, but my wife noticed, right? (49:07) And that's incredible. (49:09) It's enhancing his actual real life.
(49:12) It's not just about the session and brain training scores.
Julian Hayes II
(49:15) Yeah, and I think that's the cool part about just taking ownership and full sovereignty over your health is a lot of those intangible things that are probably often overlooked or just taken for granted that really improve. (49:27) And so I think that's something that we probably do not do enough of highlighting enough, no matter which aspect of health or domain that you're looking at. (49:36) And so the last question here is, I wanna say that somebody is going to come up to you at a cafe and they're gonna tap you on the shoulder and they're gonna say, hey, I love the work that you're doing and I'm an early stage entrepreneur.
(49:54) And do you have maybe one to three pieces of advice for me that I could take in terms of continuing to build my startup, my company up, but without sacrificing my health? (50:07) Cause oftentimes we tend to trade our health in for the pursuit of success. (50:12) And then we have to try to buy it back later.
(50:14) So I wanna be different. (50:16) And I want to have those things seamlessly, synergistically coexist together. (50:21) What would you tell them?
Paola Telfer
(50:23) Wow, yes. (50:25) I think that we spend so much time developing our skills. (50:30) Like our education system develops our external skills, our outer game of leadership.
(50:37) I would say the earlier in your life that you can start developing your inner game of leadership, that is where you will be able to take it to the next level and it'll have more longevity and more joy. (50:49) And so the inner game of leadership is really about that self-awareness. (50:53) It's about that self-awareness.
(50:54) It's about that self-regulation. (50:56) It's about exploring the depths of your mind and not just staying at the surface level of life. (51:03) It's about going into life's richness.
(51:06) And that does entail facing what our habits are, our mental habits are that dictate our decisions. (51:17) It dictates how we respond to external conditions, environments and people. (51:25) And they're quite unconscious, right?
(51:29) They're programmed into us. (51:31) And so the sooner that we can start taking a very honest look at our habits, our habits of response, our habits of thinking, the better off that we will be. (51:44) And there are different ways to explore that, right?
(51:47) There's breath work, there's psychedelic therapy, there's meditation practices, and then there's neurofeedback, right? (51:56) So any of these practices are going to further your leadership capabilities.
Julian Hayes II
(52:03) And that's a great way to put a nice boat and wrap to this conversation. (52:07) I really enjoyed this conversation. (52:09) I'm pretty sure listeners and the viewers that are going to watch this later will as well, because this is a really, really beneficial work to helping us be high performers in all facets of life, not just in our professional life, but also in our personal life.
(52:24) And so the last thing here is, where can listeners keep up with you, learn more about everything that you're up to or where would they go?
Paola Telfer
(52:34) Yeah, for sure. (52:35) So the website is Sens.AI, just like the name. (52:39) And then the handle for Instagram is sens.ai.inc.
Julian Hayes II
(52:49) Awesome, awesome, awesome. (52:51) And so until next time, thank you so much for joining me and listeners out there, stay awesome, be limitless, and as always go be the CEO of your health and your life. (53:00) Peace.
