How to Stay Biologically 21 at 60: Leslie Kenny on Healthy Aging, Fertility, and the Power of Spermidine
What if your biological age could be 21… even as you’re chronologically approaching 60?
That’s not science fiction — that’s Leslie Kenny’s reality. In the latest episode of the podcast, Leslie returns for Part 2 of our conversation to share her powerful health journey, how she reversed her autoimmune disease, and the groundbreaking science behind spermidine. This naturally occurring molecule may be one of the most potent anti-aging tools we have.
From fertility challenges to autoimmune diagnoses to now leading a global longevity movement, Leslie’s story is a testament and example of health sovereignty.
Who Is Leslie Kenny?
Leslie Kenny is the founder of Oxford Healthspan and the Oxford Longevity Project. A wellness entrepreneur, certified health coach, and passionate patient advocate, Leslie was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, and Hashimoto’s thyroiditis at age 39 — all while undergoing her fifth round of IVF.
Doctors told her she had five years left to live. Instead, she transformed her life, reversed her autoimmune symptoms, and conceived naturally at 42, giving birth at 43. Today, she’s on a mission to help others tap into their body’s natural healing intelligence.
Key Takeaways from Our Conversation
1. Reversing Aging Isn’t a Myth
Leslie’s current biological age is 21, and she’s nearly 60 chronologically. This is in large part due to her staying consistent with a holistic lifestyle, including:
Removing "kryptonite" foods (for her: gluten and dairy)
Using food-derived supplements like spermidine (Use the code JULIAN15 to save 15% off your purchase)
Managing stress and optimizing sleep
Prioritizing movement and strategic light exposure
"Your body is a miracle. There is so much more you can do — you are underestimated." – Leslie Kenny
2. Spermidine: The Cellular Reboot Button
Spermidine is a naturally occurring polyamine found in food (especially plants, legumes, mushrooms, and fermented soy) that:
Triggers autophagy – your body’s internal recycling and repair system
Supports immune cell rejuvenation
Enhances egg and sperm health
Plays a major role in gut, brain, and cardiovascular health
Food-derived spermidine is safer and more effective than synthetic versions.
Spermidine is found in semen, breast milk, and nearly every plant — that tells you how essential it is to life and longevity."
3. Fertility Can Be Optimized at Any Age
After struggling with infertility for years, Leslie conceived naturally once her autoimmune conditions and thyroid issues were addressed. She emphasizes that:
A healthy thyroid is crucial for uterine and placental function
Chronic inflammation and stress signal the body that it’s not safe to reproduce
Nutrients like folate, B12, DHEA, and spermidine can support fertility for both men and women
If the environment is safe, the body allows life. If not, it shuts everything down — including fertility."
The Hidden Power of Light
Leslie also discussed how sunlight plays a critical role in setting our biological rhythm:
Stimulates vitamin D production (essential for bone health and immunity)
Helps regulate cortisol, ghrelin, and leptin — hormones tied to hunger, satiety, and metabolism
Improves melatonin production and supports deeper sleep
She recommends 45 minutes of sun within one hour of waking (if possible).
Aging in Space…and on Earth
In her work with Oxford’s Space Innovation Lab, Leslie shares how astronauts age faster in space, particularly their immune systems. This research highlights the importance of autophagy and inflammation control not just for astronauts, but for all of us.
Leslie’s Protocol for Longevity
Here’s a peek into the longevity strategy that’s helped Leslie achieve a biological age of 21:
Diet: Gluten-free, dairy-free, plant-rich
Supplements: Spermidine (morning + evening), omega-3s
Sleep & Stress: Prioritized and protected
Movement: Gentle and consistent
Light: Sunlight early in the day to sync circadian rhythm
Mindset: “You are not your diagnosis. Never accept that.”
5 Health Tips from Leslie for Women Focused on Fertility & Longevity
Test your hormones early — especially thyroid function
Get to a healthy weight and manage stress to support ovulation
Increase plant intake to naturally boost spermidine
Bookend your day with spermidine to mimic fasting without fasting
Prioritize deep sleep and circadian alignment with early sunlight exposure
Connect With Leslie Kenny
💊 Learn more about spermidine: https://oxfordhealthspan.com (Use the code JULIAN15 to save 15% off your purchase)
🧬 The Oxford Longevity Project: https://oxfordlongevityproject.org
🎤 Leslie’s speaking & personal site: https://lesliesnewprime.com
📸 Follow Leslie on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lesliesnewprime
🎧 Listen to Part 1 (recommended if you missed it!): https://youtu.be/bULNOEvuxms
Transcript (May Not Be Exact)
Julian Hayes II
(0:02) Leslie, thank you so much for joining me for part two again. (0:06) As I was just telling you, we were talking probably off camera for about 15 minutes. (0:10) A lot of times, and I'm sure you notice this with podcasts and everything, and I have as well, that a lot of the best conversations happen off camera, and sometimes you just got to hit record right when you start, because you just get to talking about so many things.
Leslie Kenny
(0:24) 100%. (0:24) I'm happy to be back here. (0:26) Good to see you again.
Julian Hayes II
(0:27) Well, I'm looking forward to catching up and everything. (0:30) The first thing I have to ask is that I saw that you recently did a TEDx talk. (0:34) How was your experience with that?
Leslie Kenny
(0:37) Loved it. (0:38) I hadn't realized all of the memorization I would need to do for that. (0:45) It was 18 minutes long, and without really slides to use as a crutch, it definitely taxed my memorization abilities, but yeah, no, it was good.
(1:02) I was very happy to be invited to do it here in Oxford, and it was in the Sheldonian Theatre, which was designed by Christopher Wren, who did St. Paul's Cathedral, and it's the building that all Oxford University students get their degrees granted in, so it was a real honor, and I got great feedback from both medical doctors and patients on that.
Julian Hayes II
(1:29) Well, that's when you know you did a really good job, is when you get both the medical profession and the general public to like what you're talking about. (1:38) I'm curious, so I noticed that you are a Southern Cal native, and you're all the way from Oxford, so I got two questions here. (1:45) So the first one is, what's your favorite thing about being in Oxford?
Leslie Kenny
(1:49) Oh, it's like Disneyland for academics. (1:52) It's so intellectually zizzy, and the conversations at High Table, if you're having a dinner in college, they're just effervescent, you know? (2:07) You can be sitting next to a particle physicist, a cross from an art historian, next to a marine biologist, and you learn things from their individual approaches.
(2:19) You might be talking to an archaeologist who's using special x-ray technique to read inside a papyrus scroll, and something there might actually spark an idea in your own discipline. (2:36) So I love the sort of marketplace of ideas, if you will, and the breadth and depth of conversation here. (2:45) I think that's, I miss the sun, there's no question.
(2:49) If you grow up in Southern California, you're so used to wearing shorts and t-shirts and just having a very laid back lifestyle. (2:58) There is no sun really here in England, not so often. (3:03) It's not very strong, but the intellectual atmosphere is, you know, it's fabulous.
Julian Hayes II
(3:12) Yeah, that was going to be my next question, is what's the thing you miss most about Southern Cal? (3:17) And I think I know the answer.
Leslie Kenny
(3:18) Yeah, now you know the answer, vitamin D.
Julian Hayes II
(3:22) So I'm curious about that. (3:23) We'll probably jump around on a lot of things, but we were talking just off camera about how important light is. (3:29) And you mentioned the lack of sunlight there.
(3:32) So I assume if there was a population study in that area?
Leslie Kenny
(3:37) Yes, and there have been studies. (3:39) Yeah, there have been. (3:40) So, you know, I'm half Taiwanese, that island off the coast of Southern China that was once part of Japan.
(3:50) And my skin tone is very similar to my mother's. (3:54) And it means I need a higher spectrum of light in order to synthesize vitamin D in my skin and the Afro-Caribbean population in the United Kingdom, as well as the South Asian population, Pakistani or Indian. (4:09) They have they have been studied and they have difficulty getting enough vitamin D into their into their diets or their bodies such that in Scotland, children of South Asian descent were getting rickets, which is a vitamin D deficiency cause disease that leads to brittle bones.
(4:33) And I was very happy to see during COVID the National Health Service here started giving out vitamin D supplements to certain at risk populations. (4:43) But it's very clear that we need sunlight to synthesize vitamin D on our skin. (4:50) But in a cold climate where there's a weak spectrum of light and so we're always covered up in any way, the light we're getting isn't the the correct spectrum to cause that synthesis of vitamin D.
(5:03) We really need to know and look for it in our diet and things like grass fed butter, dairy products, for instance, or in oily fish like mackerel, salmon, sardines, that kind of thing.
Julian Hayes II
(5:17) Wow, rickets, that's, that's something you wouldn't expect in the modern world.
Leslie Kenny
(5:23) Sounds Dickensian, right? (5:24) Yeah, yeah, it's it really shouldn't happen. (5:28) And I think that's why doctors were very puzzled.
(5:31) But of course, they hadn't encountered this particular ethnic group, you know, their children. (5:39) Also, if you think about it in the US and the UK, we spend, I believe over 90% of our day indoors. (5:48) So there are all sorts of social changes that are happening that do affect our exposure to light.
(5:55) We're working indoors, looking at cameras, we're not even walking now with a hybrid working or working from home. (6:02) Sometimes people don't even have to leave home. (6:04) So they really get no exposure.
(6:07) And whereas they might have on their commute before, or maybe they were walking to the fields to work, you would get exposure right in the fields or while walking to the marketplace. (6:19) And light is so important. (6:21) I'm not an expert on light.
(6:23) But I know having looked at some of the studies that it's not just vitamin D, it actually has an impact on our cortisol levels. (6:32) And we want cortisol to be high in the morning. (6:35) And if we can get out into sun within an hour of waking up, we can set our circadian clock.
(6:42) This is something that Dr. Sachin Panda, the Salk Institute has written about. (6:48) And we can also kickstart our melatonin production, we sort of set a timer that says, you know, in about eight hours, it's eight o'clock in the morning, and we expose ourselves to sun, that timer is set such that around four o'clock, we start making melatonin. (7:04) But sunlight has an impact on ghrelin, which is what I like to call the gorge hormone.
(7:11) And ghrelin will make you feel like you need to eat more and more. (7:16) So if we don't get sunlight to inhibit ghrelin production, we're going to want to eat more than we necessarily need to. (7:26) Sunlight also has an impact on leptin, which is the satiety hormone.
(7:31) So if we can get they say 45 minutes of sunlight. (7:36) And this was, I think this was an NIH study, Ishikawa et al. (7:42) And it was just done a couple of years ago and said you need 45 minutes of sunlight, preferably within one hour of waking.
(7:51) And that sun exposure gives you all these benefits, proper cortisol at the right time, melatonin production, and inhibition of ghrelin and increase of leptin. (8:03) So you don't feel like you need to eat all the time. (8:05) So maybe we can lose weight without even having to go to the gym, just by getting out in the sun.
Julian Hayes II
(8:11) Well, and that's what I'm also thinking, though, that, like you said, I'm not an expert in light, I have a, I have a curriculum in the room now that I have to go through after after just kind of noticing with myself over the last few years, when I really picked up, in addition to lifting, being outdoors and running and outdoor activities. (8:28) And, and I've noticed just like every single category has improved for me, even though my activity has dramatically increased. (8:37) So you would think that that's a lot of strain that I'm putting on myself.
(8:40) So I think there's a lot of healing factors as well with the sun. (8:43) Now, probably for most people, they probably need to gradually expose themselves. (8:47) If you're not used to being outside for a while, the sun's probably going to kick your butt.
(8:51) But I do think increasing that sun exposure, there is a lot there, which I'm looking forward to myself diving in and to seeing what's going on with that.
Leslie Kenny
(8:59) Yeah. (8:59) For people who are reluctant to get out in the sun, this would be in particular people who are naturally red haired or freckled, their skin is freckled, they're very pale or blue eyed. (9:11) Where for all of us, I take you can take an algae as a supplement called astaxanthin.
(9:18) Oh, yeah, it's fantastic. (9:20) It's great for your skin. (9:21) It's a it's a natural protector of UV damage.
(9:26) And it's not going to replace, say you sunblock, but it will if you are if you are blue eyed, fair skinned, you are unlikely to burn in the way you normally would have say you're going from Canada to Florida. (9:42) So a pal of mine, who's a professor of pharmacology here at Oxford University, he that's his that's what he does. (9:49) He's Canadian, he goes to Florida, and he always the week before he leaves, he starts taking the astaxanthin.
(9:56) So he doesn't burn.
Julian Hayes II
(9:58) Yeah, I take astaxanthin. (10:00) And there's also another one I think it's it's poly poly poly poly something I forgot. (10:05) And it's it's connected with skin DNA gene.
(10:08) And it's something like that. (10:09) I forgot the name polypodium. (10:12) I forgot the name.
(10:13) I talked to Dr. Kaufman at one of the interviews. (10:16) Yeah, yeah, she mentioned it.
Leslie Kenny
(10:19) Yeah, yeah, she's fantastic. (10:21) Good, good, good, good. (10:23) She knows all the obscure, all of the obscure compounds.
Julian Hayes II
(10:28) Yes, absolutely. (10:29) I need to I need to talk to her. (10:30) I haven't talked to her in a while.
(10:32) So, um, so for those who don't know you, in case this is the first time and they don't check out the first one, which you should go back because there'll be things that we talked on here that won't be on this one. (10:41) Just a quick, a quick synopsis of kind of who you are and kind of your like your like your journey. (10:48) And what got you into this?
Leslie Kenny
(10:51) Sure. (10:52) Okay. (10:52) Well, I'm first and foremost, a patient advocate.
(10:56) I am a couple months off my 60th birthday. (11:00) And 20 years ago at age 39, I was diagnosed with multiple autoimmune conditions, rheumatoid arthritis, and lupus. (11:09) And it was right in the middle of my fifth IVF round.
(11:13) I'd done three IUIs and then five IVFs. (11:17) And this particular round, I was doing I was using donor eggs. (11:21) And the doctors couldn't explain my infertility, but said, maybe it's because your eggs are too old.
(11:29) It's very hard to find a donor. (11:32) If you are half Taiwanese, half Caucasian like me, and I couldn't do it. (11:37) You know, I found somebody who was half Italian, half South Korean.
(11:43) So there was a lot riding on that fifth IVF. (11:46) I was really desperate to become a mother. (11:49) And right in the middle, right before embryo transfer, I could feel pain in my hands.
(11:54) I went to see my doctor to check it out. (11:57) And she told me that I had these diseases. (12:01) And I was so, I was so upset when she told me, look, we're going to suppress your immune system to manage the rheumatoid arthritis.
(12:12) But there's nothing we can do for the lupus, just expect it to get worse. (12:16) And I thought, I can't be a mother who's debilitated by this disease. (12:23) And, and I, I just said, I became this angry, entitled medical consumer.
(12:29) And I just said, wait, I'm the client, I'm paying you, because you're the expert. (12:36) And you have to figure out my problem and make this right. (12:41) And, you know, I have this IVF going, I'm using donor eggs, this was hard to tee up, you have to solve this problem for me.
(12:50) And she just looked at me and said, your, your numbers, your levels are so off the charts, it looks like you're fighting cancer. (12:59) If I were you, I would not do the IVF, you have a good five years left, even if you succeed. (13:06) And I thought, I was, you know, I was pretty gobsmacked.
(13:12) And I think a lot of patients would very passively receive that information and start getting their affairs in order. (13:23) But I was very lucky that I, I sort of heard this voice of my long deceased, but much beloved Midwestern grandmother who had this fantastic can do spirit. (13:38) And she, you know, that voice was, you know, let's just throw the kitchen sink at this.
(13:44) And that's what I did. (13:46) I completely changed my lifestyle, I looked at anything that could be triggering my immune system, not just diet, though, that was an obvious place to start, but poor sleep, poor movement, and trauma, right, working through trauma, I wanted to find anything and I was so open to any possible idea. (14:10) This is well before Bessel van der Kolk's The Body Keeps the Score, Gabor Mate were on the scene.
(14:16) But I was open to anything if it might help me. (14:20) At the same time, I went back to the patient bulletin boards, where I had done research on IVF, and I found lupus patients who said, hey, these, you usually lupus comes with other autoimmune conditions. (14:36) Often it's Hashimoto's thyroiditis, which in fact, I had but was not picked up at that time.
(14:42) And these other patients were saying, you know, the immune suppressants, they actually stopped working after a year and a half. (14:50) And there is actually a novel treatment from Germany that seems to be working. (14:58) There's a small study that were just 13 people in it, they were all lupus patients, but they all improved.
(15:03) So that was the proof I needed to go against what my doctor was saying, it can only ever get worse, because clearly these patients had improved. (15:13) But the treatment, which was called intravenous immunoglobulin, was a transfusion of antibodies from anywhere from three to 10,000 donors. (15:25) So imagine when you get donated blood, you know, there's they're always testing to see if there's HIV or, you know, any kind of other illnesses there.
(15:36) And if you're getting antibodies from up to 10,000 people, you're dramatically increasing exposure risk to something that that maybe we we didn't know about, we don't know about yet, but that can be quite, quite serious. (15:53) So I, you know, I thought about the risk. (15:57) But it seemed to me that I didn't have many options.
(16:00) Either I could do nothing, and it was going to get worse. (16:05) Or I could take a leap of faith and try this novel therapy. (16:10) So I did do two rounds, I found a doctor in San Francisco, I was living in Boulder, Colorado at the time.
(16:18) So my doctor didn't prescribe it for me, another doctor did. (16:23) And I within, you know, within six months of changing my diet and doing the two rounds of IVIG, which cost $24,000 at that time, I put myself in remission. (16:37) And I was so excited when my doctor told me and I was desperate to share my experience with her.
(16:44) But I said, you know, do you want to know what I did? (16:47) And she just said, she didn't even look up at me from my, from my folder, my file folder, she just said, No, that's okay. (16:56) And she probably thought I was going to say I, you know, I saw a statue, I saw the tears of a statue in an obscure temple somewhere.
(17:05) And that was what cured me. (17:08) But in any event, she wasn't interested. (17:11) And that, that that made me angry, because no patient wants to think that their experience is going to happen again, right?
(17:22) What's the point? (17:23) This is pointless. (17:24) I've, you know, you have to, I'm not asking for gold stars or an A plus on this, this is not an exam, this is my life.
(17:31) There are other people who you're going to tell they've got five years left, you need to share this information with them. (17:39) This is life altering, right? (17:41) And for I've met 1000s of patients in the 20 years that I've been doing this, who have told me especially rheumatoid arthritis patients that they're on the immune suppressants, and the immune suppressants stop and they go on methotrexate, which is a chemo drug.
(17:58) But if you're a young woman, there is a risk to your eggs. (18:03) And they always say, Oh, it's like Roaccutane, go off it six months before you want to conceive. (18:09) But it just doesn't always work so easily getting pregnant after that I have to say I've not met someone, I'm sure there must be somebody who's gotten pregnant after methotrexate.
(18:19) But I just think why, why not just solve the problem? (18:23) Why continually manage it. (18:26) And, and that's kind of what my advocacy work is about is let patients know you're getting the latest science backed, accessible techniques that patients don't need a permission slip for, and giving them the tools so that they can actually take charge of their health.
(18:50) And I look at at, you know, one of my heroes is Dr. Terry Walls, we spoke about her briefly before we started recording. (18:58) And she had multiple sclerosis, she was in a full blown mobility scooter with a neck rest to support her head, she was using a little stick shift, you know, ball gearing in order to manipulate where she went. (19:14) It was really serious.
(19:15) And yet she made incredible changes to her lifestyle. (19:20) And within six months was on a bicycle, I believe it was six months. (19:24) It's, you know, it's, it's a miracle.
(19:27) That's what we need patients and people who aren't sick yet to know is that your body is much more powerful than you think. (19:37) And it's constantly sensing, it has more antennae than you realize. (19:42) And it's always looking for safety.
(19:45) And it's, it's taking in the things you give to it. (19:48) So if you give it rubbish, you know, that that saying rubbish and rubbish out, you're going to get that. (19:55) So you need to make sure you protect it from any kryptonite in your life.
(20:00) And that can be you know, diets, poor sleep, you lack of movement, too much stress, protect it from those things, and then give it the things that support it. (20:12) And those could be, you know, everything from clean water, good movement, social connection, right. (20:19) And I just want people to know, your body is a miracle.
(20:25) And there is so much more you can do, you are underestimated. (20:31) And, you know, really, you've got to step into your power.
Julian Hayes II
(20:35) Yeah, I'm smiling, listening to that, because I totally relate to the part about taking control of your health, taking control of your biology, and not not just giving it over to what somebody tells you, or, or even people before you. (20:50) And I think that's a reason a lot of us get in this space or get called to this type of work is because something personal happens, you know, for me, it's like witnessing my father, and then grandfather, aunts and uncles, and they just tell you, hey, this is this is what's going to happen. (21:05) This is just in your genes and everything.
(21:07) And you're just like, that doesn't make sense. (21:09) That means I have no, that means I have no, no control over anything. (21:12) And I just didn't like that.
(21:14) And so you mentioned kryptonite. (21:15) And I'm when someone's trying to heal, especially for something like Dr. Walls, and even what you went through, probably one of the hardest things is the people around you, because they're gonna be like, just accept it. (21:29) Why are you fighting it?
(21:30) This sounds crazy. (21:32) This is impossible. (21:33) The stats say this, the doctors say this, the news says this.
(21:37) How do you block out that? (21:38) Because I figured I figured that was probably tough for you at the beginning to block out all this noise and really focus in on healing.
Leslie Kenny
(21:47) Well, it was at a time when I'll tell you gluten free and dairy free just meant troublemaker, right? (21:53) You say to the waitress, I'd like to can I have that on gluten free bread? (21:57) Or is that is that pot pie gluten free, and they just look at you like you're from another planet.
(22:02) Things have moved on. (22:03) I think it's much easier now to ask for exactly what you need or want. (22:09) But to be really honest, when a doctor tells you you have five years left, you wax your skis pretty fast and get behind whatever therapies are going to be beneficial to you.
(22:24) I mean, that was what happened in my case. (22:26) Of course, there are people who will just who will just accept it. (22:29) But for me, I just thought I got to take it's my mindset.
(22:36) Maybe I've got to take a shot at this. (22:38) Now, I had watched my grandmother die of glioblastoma, brain tumor, and taken a year off from UC Berkeley to take care of her at her home in Indianapolis, Indiana. (22:50) And she was a real fighter.
(22:52) She had great spirit, like I said, that can do Midwestern, we're going to make this happen attitude. (22:59) The chemo absolutely destroyed her. (23:02) So I will say that from that experience of watching her die, you know, being her daily carer, sort of turning her so she didn't get bedsores every few hours.
(23:15) I was probably a little bit more mistrustful of accepting what accepting without question, what the medical establishment was telling me. (23:31) And at the end of her life, when I asked the doctors, what's going to happen? (23:38) You know, we've done all the chemo we did all you said she's lost all her hair.
(23:43) She's bloated. (23:44) She's you know, she she's disorientated. (23:47) And the doctor said, there's nothing more we can do.
(23:52) And I said nothing. (23:54) And he said, Well, you can stop feeding her. (23:57) So she was being fed through tubes in her nose.
(24:01) And I was being a pouring ensure that stuff that you get it, I don't know, Walmart or Walgreens, strawberry and chocolate, I was kind of, you know, going between the two, like it makes a difference. (24:13) And I just thought, well, that's horrible. (24:15) So we've done all the stuff you told us to do.
(24:18) And now I'm supposed to, I'm supposed to kill her. (24:21) No, unfair. (24:23) So because of that experience, I had started looking at alternatives to to say chemo.
(24:33) And I'm not saying that I'm against chemo. (24:36) But I wanted to look for other ways from what it was. (24:39) So this was back in 80 1986 85, a long time ago.
(24:46) And that's when I started reading the work of, you know, other outliers, people who had kind of taken control and found other paths to healing themselves. (24:59) So I already had that mindset. (25:01) And I think that's, that's why it's so important for people to understand that there are other ways to do it.
(25:08) Even if you're just one, one example, you are living proof that something can be done a different way. (25:14) And that's why I'm always trying to tell people, look, I should have been dead 20 years ago, I'm living proof that there's another way. (25:22) And that these prognoses are not as dire always, as they say, you are not your diagnosis, and never accept that never.
Julian Hayes II
(25:33) I love that. (25:34) And, you know, I want to stay on the subject of fertility, because you actually conceived at 43.
Leslie Kenny
(25:40) Conceived at 42 and delivered at 43.
Julian Hayes II
(25:44) Good point. (25:45) Yes. (25:48) So the reason why I'm curious about this is because I've seen birth rate stats, all this, and then I've seen where now it seems like women are being labeled like, like 35.
(26:00) And over is just is people are speaking geriatric. (26:03) Yeah. (26:04) I think about my grandmother.
(26:06) And I think her last kid was around almost she was almost 50.
Leslie Kenny
(26:10) Yeah, you can if you're in if you are if the body is in balance, you will be fertile.
Julian Hayes II
(26:17) Yeah. (26:17) So yeah. (26:19) You know, so it's very confusing the message that I'm seeing now.
Leslie Kenny
(26:24) And I'm just like, that's because so many people are not in balance. (26:28) You know, I look at the testosterone levels for today's 20 year olds. (26:32) And I think, how can they be in some cases worse than those of men who are 30 years older, it's it's not right.
(26:40) In Latino, some Latin American countries, there is the idea of the on yearo. (26:45) So a woman who has babies, you know, one a year, and she might do this from the age of 20 until, you know, until her late 40s. (26:55) And yeah, which is incredible.
(26:58) And I'm not saying that's what we need. (27:00) But I'm saying that they are an example of what is what is possible. (27:05) And in my particular case, I needed to really not just address the autoimmune conditions, but address the destroyed thyroid that had basically, you know, gone.
(27:22) So just not making any more thyroid hormone, I have about an eighth of a thyroid left if you look at it under ultrasound. (27:30) And my doctor at the time, and I'll tell you that I went to, I went to the doctor, the local GP general practitioner, who said, No, you're fine. (27:41) You're normal.
(27:42) I knew I wasn't. (27:42) So I persisted. (27:43) I went to a private doctor here in Britain, who also said, You're normal.
(27:47) Again, I knew I wasn't. (27:48) So I just kept looking. (27:50) And on again, on these patient bulletin boards, and I can't, I can't overestimate the importance of these bulletin boards.
(28:01) Other patients were saying, there's only one guy in Britain, who's going to be able to help you. (28:05) And I went to him, and he diagnosed the really low thyroid and low adrenals. (28:13) And he said, Here's a supplement, just you can get off of the internet, readily get it in Britain, take that for your adrenals for a couple of weeks.
(28:24) And then after take this thyroid hormone is from desiccated, it's basically desiccated pig's thyroid. (28:32) It's what Hillary Clinton, I'm told takes, and not levothyroxine, the synthetic thyroid hormone. (28:40) And he said, Oh, you're going to be hyper fertile once you take this, because you came in because you were so tired looking after your one daughter who was adopted.
(28:51) If you don't want any more children, you'd better take precautions. (28:53) And I thought, I've been trying to get pregnant for eight years, I spent over $100,000 trying to do various procedures. (29:01) I've seen doctors in Australia and Hong Kong, in San Francisco in Colorado.
(29:08) And also in the UK, I'm not getting pregnant. (29:12) Ironically, within about two weeks, I was pregnant. (29:17) Well, two weeks after starting his protocol.
(29:20) And that was that was really incredible. (29:23) But the thyroid governs the heart, and the heart gives adequate circulation to the uterus, and would be needed for the placenta to function properly. (29:36) So you know, you might have a great embryo, but if you don't have the right womb, with a lot of rich nutrients coming all the time, then the embryo won't progress.
(29:49) So that was, you know, that was one of my big takeaways. (29:53) And apparently, the doctors had checked everything, all those fertility doctors had checked everything to see if this, you know, what was wrong, and they never, ever diagnosed the thyroid problem. (30:05) So, yeah.
Julian Hayes II
(30:07) And I guess, correct me if I'm wrong, but a lot of women will probably be maybe hypo thyroid. (30:14) And so, that's going to affect overall metabolism. (30:17) And then of course, that's going to affect fertility as well.
(30:22) And just, huh.
Leslie Kenny
(30:24) They'll have symptoms, and the men in their lives will feel it, like if their thighs are super cold to the touch, if they're always complaining, their hands and feet are so cold, right? (30:36) Then those are classic, classic clinical symptoms of low thyroid function, but also hair loss, premature gray hair, loss of the outer third of the eyebrows, dry skin, and poor Achilles heel reflex, breathlessness when going upstairs, because the heart is having to keep you both upright as well as go upstairs. (31:05) Those are all symptoms.
(31:08) Trying to think if there are others, brain fog, obviously, difficulty shifting weight. (31:14) These would be the things. (31:17) But you can, you know, you can test yourself.
(31:19) You just do your basal body temperature. (31:23) First thing in the morning, you got a thermometer. (31:26) Before, while you're lying down, before you sit up, go to the loo or anything like that, you put the thermometer in, and you take your basal body temperature for five days in a row.
(31:38) At the same time, take your pulse. (31:40) And if your body temperature is below the average, what is the average? (31:46) 37.4, I think something like that. (31:50) If it's below that, then that is what I would call, you know, a clinical symptom, you need multiple clinical symptoms before, you know, we necessarily can say that you would be. (32:01) But that's one way. (32:02) And if your pulse is really low, my pulse was always around 50.
(32:06) And doctors would say, Oh, that's an athletic pulse. (32:09) And I'd say, I am anything but athletic. (32:14) I am exhausted.
(32:16) That is an exhausted pulse.
Julian Hayes II
(32:20) Yeah.
Leslie Kenny
(32:22) So these are these are, those are two ways that if you're curious, if you or your girlfriend or partner might be hypothyroid, you can do this test at home. (32:33) And then when you go to the doctor and say, I think something's not right. (32:37) You've got some ammunition, right?
Julian Hayes II
(32:41) Yeah, so and so it's almost like, you know, and I also think about this, like if people are when people are thinking at this stage that it's almost give your think like six months ahead and start really started to check and prep your body both men and women, because I'm seeing a lot of times with fertility, a lot of times it's not just the women. (33:02) It's guys, a lot of times the guys as well.
Leslie Kenny
(33:05) Yeah. (33:05) Well, I would suggest having a lot of plants, obviously, for women, you'd have a prenatal supplement, which gives you your folic acid and your B 12. (33:17) These are things that are really important for the neurological development of baby, like thyroid hormone is too.
(33:24) But spermidine is really important for fertility. (33:30) And of course, it's kind of in the name, right? (33:33) Where was it first discovered?
(33:34) It was discovered in semen. (33:37) And it is so vital to the survival of the next generation that spermidine, the compound is found in semen. (33:47) It's found in breast milk, and it's in all plants.
(33:50) And so get lots of plant material because studies show that it's really important for spermatogenesis, or development of sperm. (33:59) It's important for embryogenesis, development of the embryo, and it's very important for oogenesis. (34:05) That is the development of the egg.
(34:10) You know, one of the ways that they tell if we women are menopausal is they look at our ovarian reserve. (34:15) And your ovarian reserve is governed by how many of these oocytes you have, because they are the precursors to the eggs. (34:24) Now, there's an exciting study out of China that showed that if you gave mice, older female mice, a small amount of spermidine, that it actually potentiated their ability to create eggs.
(34:38) So they would have not just higher litter numbers, but they would have better egg quality, and they had, you know, just better chance of conceiving and carrying to full term. (34:55) And like I said, with men, it's spermatogenesis. (34:58) You want healthy sperm.
(35:01) You don't want to be shooting blanks if what you want is to conceive.
Julian Hayes II
(35:06) I did not know that fact about spermidine in terms of, well, I knew about the men part, but the breast milk, I didn't know about that.
Leslie Kenny
(35:14) Some huge quantities in breast milk. (35:16) Yeah. (35:16) Actually, it's funny because a lot of bodybuilders swear by breast milk, right?
(35:20) It's not colostrum, it's breast milk. (35:22) I mean, maybe they'll do colostrum too.
Julian Hayes II
(35:24) Why?
Leslie Kenny
(35:25) It's because spermidine allows for greater cell proliferation. (35:29) So if you want to get swole fast, you want more spermidine, right? (35:33) Because you want more of yourself, right?
(35:38) For women, women love it because it gives them glossy, shiny hair. (35:45) And obviously, hair, skin, and nails, these are highly proliferative parts of the body. (35:51) Unlike, say, the heart where, say, a cardiomyocyte, which governs the rhythm of the heart, only 1% of those cells actually renew every year.
(36:02) But our hair, skin, and nails are constantly renewing. (36:05) Our gut biome renews very rapidly within anywhere from, well, let's say 72 hours. (36:12) So these four areas, you want a lot of spermidine for, but also for fertility.
(36:19) And in fact, we just had a great testimonial. (36:23) Someone here in the UK told us that after she took three months of our primidine gluten-free product, she fell pregnant. (36:32) She's now 35 weeks and she's 45 years old.
(36:37) First pregnancy. (36:39) I was like, what? (36:41) I couldn't believe it.
(36:43) Yeah. (36:43) And it's absolutely, it's astonishing. (36:48) Yeah.
(36:48) It's really astonishing. (36:49) So she was actually, actually, I can't say too much about who she is, but for various reasons, I happen to know who this individual is. (36:59) But it's so, it's really exciting.
(37:01) We've had other folks who've written to us to say that they've gotten pregnant. (37:07) I'm not sure, I can't really say who they are, but some of them are influencers, big influencers.
Julian Hayes II
(37:14) Wow. (37:14) That's really interesting. (37:16) I mean, you gave me even more reason to continue to use it.
(37:22) Now, do I need to, does anyone, do we need to cycle or can you continue to use it?
Leslie Kenny
(37:28) You can. (37:29) I would say if you wanted to take a break, you can probably go up to about two weeks and then it's probably, you probably would want to go back on it. (37:39) The thing about it is that it's not fat soluble.
(37:42) We started talking about vitamin D, which is a fat soluble vitamin that is stored in our tissues and fat. (37:50) And with vitamins like vitamin C and spermidine, which is not a vitamin, but which is definitely a nutrient, these are not stored in our tissues. (38:00) And as a matter of fact, in individuals who have diseases related to impaired cell renewal or impaired autophagy, they just conducted a study with some children who had this problem and they found that they needed to give them spermidine three times a day.
(38:20) Normally I would say, well, take it when you break your fast in the morning and before you, at your last meal of the day, because spermidine mimics the benefits of fasting. (38:34) So it can either kickstart your fast at night or extend it when you break your fast in the morning. (38:39) But in the case of these children, they really needed it continually in order to get autophagy working in their body.
(38:48) So cycling, think of it like vitamin C. (38:53) It's not really great, but of course you should try and get it in your diet. (38:58) I always tell people, try first and foremost to get it in your diet.
(39:01) Legumes are a good source, peas, good source, mushrooms, fermented soybean. (39:08) There's a dish in Japan called natto that is made from fermented soybeans, or you can get tempeh. (39:14) Some people can't really tolerate that, but these would be good sources of spermidine.
(39:20) So do try to get it in your diet first. (39:22) If you need a boost, get the spermidine supplement and always get food derived because the benefits are just better, so much better than synthetic. (39:34) And with synthetic, there's a problem.
(39:38) If you give rats too much, they actually age faster. (39:44) And so they have this synthetic, I'm talking synthetic, not the food derived. (39:48) And it's a bit like rapamycin where you need to really hone in on the Goldilocks zone for that individual animal or person in order to get the right effect if you're going the synthetic route.
(40:01) But with food derived, the European Food Safety Authority has looked at food derived spermidine and has said up to six milligrams is safe. (40:13) Supplemental food derived spermidine.
Julian Hayes II
(40:15) Yeah. (40:15) Well, you answered my next question, or one of my questions was, spermidine is becoming much more popular compared to two years ago when we talked last time. (40:26) Because I just had a curiosity sometimes, I just go and look at the marketplace and see, and that can give me an idea of what's becoming even more popular.
(40:34) And so now, and I'm seeing this, and I saw some outrageous doses.
Leslie Kenny
(40:37) Oh, they're stupid doses, and it's all synthetic. (40:41) You know, there's this concept that more is better. (40:47) But no, remember the story of Goldilocks, right?
(40:52) It's got to be right in that perfect zone. (40:55) And we've seen this with rapamycin, more is not necessarily better. (40:59) You get more, you're going to suppress your immune system, you're going to get open mouth sores.
(41:04) It's not good. (41:05) It's really detrimental. (41:07) And as Brian Johnson said, it actually aged him faster.
(41:12) Talking to my colleagues at the University of Oxford, they tell me that it only, in the experiments where it worked, it only seemed to work in female animals. (41:22) So a lot of issues with rapamycin, not found in our bodies, not found in food, only found on the island of Rapa Nui, you know, really rare bacteria. (41:32) With spermidine, there's, you know, we have, it's from plants, and we make it ourselves.
(41:38) We have co-evolved with plants for, you know, a million years, depending on where you, you know, you decide we humans started as apes or not. (41:48) But it's, you know, it is, it has a food derived, has a very good safety profile. (41:53) Now, what my colleagues at Oxford will say is that if you give too high a synthetic dose, actually, you get, you can get apoptosis of the cells, not autophagy.
(42:05) Autophagy is the clearing out of the cell, the recycling of components, the making better of the rejuvenating of the cells. (42:14) And their work was on, especially, specifically here at the University of Oxford, Professor Katja Simon and Dr. Ghada Alsaleh at the Space Innovation Lab, their work was on immune cell rejuvenation by spermidine. (42:29) But what they have said to me is that if you use too high a dose, you get apoptosis, and you don't want cell death always, right?
(42:41) So that is, you know, with it turning to acrolein. (42:49) If the body gets too much synthetic spermidine, it doesn't know exactly what to do with it. (42:55) And then it can convert it in the liver to acrolein, which is a lung toxin.
(43:00) You remember that rail, that train derailment in Ohio? (43:04) And all the cars tipped over and they released the chemicals in them. (43:10) That was so what was happening was that was acrolein.
(43:14) And so what those people, I guess it was at the border, Ohio, Pennsylvania, what those people in the community were suffering from were lung issues. (43:26) And so I just, you know, I'm just always thinking, look, Jack, you know, I grew up with Tang. (43:31) Do you remember Tang with the astronauts, the powdered orange drink that the astronauts took up to the moon?
(43:38) Okay. (43:38) I grew up with that. (43:39) Everyone's like, oh, Tang is the best thing.
(43:41) It's like better than an orange. (43:43) Do you know, sometimes nature is is nature is the true master, right? (43:49) And so I would always take an orange over powdered synthetic chemical stuff that somebody says is like, yeah, that's, that's supposed to be as good as an orange.
(44:00) It's just not there's more we learn every day about how these components that are found in nature are so perfectly formed so perfectly created that that there are more benefits to them that we just haven't yet discovered. (44:17) When I think of an orange, I think about the pith. (44:20) We never knew that the white and the pith was actually good for our gut biome that our gut biome was able to eat that and create interesting, helpful molecules.
(44:33) Anything from vitamins, melatonin, even insulin, the gut biome can make. (44:38) And that's just recent research out of Washington University in Missouri. (44:44) So with spermidine in food, it comes with naturally occurring cofactors that potentiate its ability to work in the body.
(44:55) And I think that's, that's just, that's an important point. (44:58) You know, if you want to get vitamin C and a really good keto, low carb source of vitamin C is red bell peppers. (45:08) Well, guess what red bell peppers don't just have vitamin C, they have other cofactors that help them work better.
(45:16) And nature is the best plants are just the best chemist that we have ever seen. (45:22) And in response to environmental stimuli, they create molecules that protect them, but which we can use to protect ourselves, just like astaxanthin is created in response to high UV light, we ingest it, we are conferred with that UV light protection. (45:41) It's the same with those plants.
(45:43) So I always go with nature first. (45:46) And I've done that also with my thyroid hormone, you know, it's desiccated pig's thyroid, but it has naturally occurring thyroid hormones, not just levothyroxine or T4, but it has T0, T1, T2, T3. (46:00) And I want those.
(46:01) And that's my, my philosophy. (46:03) When I look at supplements, I'm always looking for the food derived if I can get them.
Julian Hayes II
(46:09) And one other thing about swimming that we talked about offline was that it's rejuvenating cells. (46:14) And even before we get into that, last time we talked, I think we said, there were 12 hallmarks of aging last time we talked.
Leslie Kenny
(46:21) Yeah. (46:22) Well, I think when you and I last talked, there were nine. (46:26) So they're the authors of the paper that established the hallmarks of aging, the original nine came out on the 10th anniversary of the publication of that paper with a new paper saying, there are three more.
(46:40) And the three new ones are very easy for people to understand their inflammation, impaired autophagy, and gut dysbiosis. (46:49) And they are, they are, they are among the easiest three. (46:54) I mean, people get stem cell dysfunction.
(46:56) Yeah, they get that. (46:58) Maybe telomere shortening, mitochondrial dysfunction, but impaired protein folding, not everybody gets. (47:04) Senescence was one of the other big ones.
(47:07) But, but those three are the three new ones are all inhibited by spermidine. (47:15) And spermidine inhibits nine of the 12 hallmarks of aging. (47:21) And for me, it's kind of, you know, I'm always looking for bang for the buck.
(47:25) And this is I'm covering my bases here, right? (47:30) There are so many molecules out there. (47:35) But it's very hard to decide if you're looking at a longevity protocol, what are the compounds that are most beneficial.
(47:44) And it's very clear that spermidine really beats the pants off of, you know, all of these other molecules, whether it's NMN, or metformin, estradiol, lithium, these are all and rapamycin is the only one that comes close. (48:07) rapamycin is a contender, the problem is in the dose. (48:11) Right.
(48:12) And that's the big, that's the big mystery. (48:15) But, you know, if you if, if we are still not certain about how much each individual person should take a rapamycin, to get those beneficial effects, then spermidine is the clear is the clear winner of the, you know, inhibiting hallmarks of aging race.
Julian Hayes II
(48:38) I'm gonna go with something out of left field. (48:40) Yeah, sure. (48:41) Maybe, maybe it's the listeners.
(48:42) And we talked about it a little bit off camera, again, and space, we're talking about space. (48:48) And we're talking about the astronauts that are coming back from space. (48:52) And the effects that that has on aging, and that I don't think people realize, how detrimental and how tough that is.
(49:02) And I guess it's a great business opportunity. (49:04) Someone can ever figure that out.
Leslie Kenny
(49:06) Well, so I think about this a lot, because Dr. Gata Alsaleh, who runs the UK's only space innovation lab is one of my advisors, and I was just in her lab today, I was really cool. (49:19) She's got a, you know, a live link to the International Space Station. (49:24) So I can see the guys at the space station, and they've got the experiment, you know, the boxes with the experiments in there.
(49:32) But a few years ago, when the space innovation lab was started or opened at the University of Oxford, James Green, who used to be the chief scientific officer for the for NASA's mission to Mars presented, and he said, one of the first things that needs to be built on the moon, when we have space tourism is hospitals. (49:59) And I thought, wait a second, I thought this was supposed to be like, Star Trek, they can just scan us. (50:07) And, you know, Scotty can just, you know, fix us immediately with something that looks like an iPhone.
(50:12) And he said, actually, people don't understand how tough it is to go into space, we age exponentially, certain parts of the body age much faster than other parts of the body. (50:24) And one part that ages much faster is the immune system. (50:29) And, you know, you think about the things that the immune system does, it protects us from pathogens, such as bacteria and viruses, it surveils constantly for cancer, so that it's getting rid of cancer cells, so they don't become tumors.
(50:43) And it's helping regulate the immune system, so it has the appropriate response, and doesn't have an autoimmune and overactive autoimmune response. (50:53) So the immune system is very important. (50:55) But when Scott and Mark Kelly, the twins were working for NASA, and Scott Kelly went to the International Space Station for one year, he came back down in his early 40s.
(51:08) And his I believe, let's say mid 40s, he came back down to Earth. (51:12) And his immune system was that I believe it was 73 year old man. (51:17) So his immune system had aged dramatically in that one year.
(51:23) Now, the good news is that when he came back to Earth, it began to regulate and come back down. (51:31) But you know, with with with Sonny Williams, who's just come back down, the two astronauts who've just come back down yesterday, they were saying that they were worried, commentators were worried about muscle loss. (51:48) Having been in space for that long, can you actually reverse it?
(51:53) And that is, you know, it's a very, very big question. (51:57) Muscles actually emit myokines, which are anti-inflammatory compounds. (52:03) It's not just that muscles help us stay upright and avoid falls, but they are there as as a generator, a little factory of these anti-inflammatory compounds.
(52:16) So yeah, I always chuckle when I think about, you know, Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk, we're all going to Mars. (52:25) And I'm like, yeah, but we'll all be dead by the time we get there. (52:30) Right.
(52:31) Or we'll get there and we'll be so elderly, we won't be able to like pry ourselves out of the Mars lander, right? (52:39) It's, it's, it's not, it's not so simple yet.
Julian Hayes II
(52:44) Obviously, we got a lot of work to do.
Leslie Kenny
(52:47) But there's work to do, right? (52:49) This is, and for women, apparently going into space is more aging than for men, because of our lack of testosterone to support our bones and muscles. (52:59) So, so that's another thing, because I think Jeff Bezos, his wife is about to go into space with Katy Perry.
(53:06) And I can't remember two other people of note. (53:09) And I saw that I thought, I don't know, you know, they're going to come back, they're going to be older than when they went.
Julian Hayes II
(53:17) I guess, I guess, does it does it matter how long, I guess, how long does it take for the effects to like, really true?
Leslie Kenny
(53:22) That's true. (53:23) You're absolutely right. (53:24) A week would be okay.
(53:26) Yeah, you don't want to go for it. (53:31) You want to do it.
Julian Hayes II
(53:34) Yeah, regardless. (53:35) Yeah. (53:36) I'm going to wait and let other people get the kinks out and all that.
(53:41) And then I'll perhaps consider it. (53:42) But I'm not going to be early adopter with this.
Leslie Kenny
(53:45) Yeah, I'm, I'm the same as you. (53:47) I'm gonna, I'm gonna take a wait and see approach. (53:50) And I want to, I want a few more women to to be up there for longer.
Julian Hayes II
(53:55) Yeah, you know, speaking, speaking of aging and biological aging as well. (54:01) Recently turned 60. (54:03) Biological aging.
Leslie Kenny
(54:04) Just about. (54:04) Just about 60. (54:06) Yeah, two more months, yeah.
Julian Hayes II
(54:08) Okay, so two more months, you'll be 60. (54:11) Biological age is around 21, 22?
Leslie Kenny
(54:13) Yes, 21, 21, yeah.
Julian Hayes II
(54:15) So I'm sure people are curious, what's your protocol and ways of doing things? (54:21) You don't have to give it all away in case it's a lot.
Leslie Kenny
(54:25) My overarching goal over the past 20 years has been to keep my immune system in balance and inflammation as low as possible. (54:36) And you can look at your high sensitivity, see reactive protein tests, that's otherwise known as the HSCRP test, and see where your levels are. (54:47) They should be below one.
(54:49) In some countries, doctors will say, oh, you're fine if you're over three, if you're under three, but you really ideally want to be below 1.0. And there are other inflammatory markers, TNF-alpha, tumor necrosis factor alpha, IL-6, cytokines. (55:10) These are all inflammatory markers. (55:13) If you are exposed to them chronically, that is problematic, and that is what happens in autoimmune conditions.
(55:20) So I have done, I'm constantly monitoring those markers, and I'm eating olive oil, omega-3 fish oil, you know, fatty fish, sardines, anchovies, these small ones, they are your friends, and because they have anti-inflammatory factors in them. (55:42) Obviously with skin health, I take astaxanthin to reduce sunburn or any kind of damage to the skin, because again, that is inflammation. (55:54) We sometimes forget about the skin, but there can be inflammation there too.
(55:59) And my foods, gluten-free, dairy-free, so reducing my personal kryptonite. (56:06) This is not everybody's kryptonite. (56:08) If your ancestors came from the area around the Fertile Crescent, then you're probably fine having grains, but gluten seems to be a problem for me personally, probably because of my half Asian ancestry.
(56:27) And dairy just doesn't, you know, I grew up drinking gallons of milk to the point my mother used to joke that she should buy a cow, but I don't know, after I hit 18, I just couldn't eat ice cream or have dairy the way that I had when I was younger, and I have got to stay away from it because of that. (56:46) I have to stay away from it because it really irritates, irritates me, and if I'm on a diet of that, my doctor can actually see. (56:53) For example, I was taking a little bit of ghee in my coffee.
(56:57) My doctor immediately said she could see it in my blood work. (57:03) So that's inflammation. (57:05) The other thing is I'm always trying to activate autophagy.
(57:09) As a hypothyroid patient, fasting is not great for me because my body will perceive it as a famine and will down-regulate my metabolism. (57:19) It will release a compound called reverse T3 that sits on my receptors and blocks thyroid hormone from getting into my cells. (57:30) So I will actually, I could fast, and I will actually gain weight.
(57:35) So I don't do that. (57:37) I try to get molecules from food that mimic the benefits of fasting. (57:43) Spermidine is a big one, and nobilitin, which is in citrus peel, is another.
(57:48) Curcumin and turmeric, I use that a lot, like it loads. (57:53) Probably have a recipe for a soup that I like to make with legumes full of spermidine, probably somewhere in my social media, but that's basically it. (58:03) Reduce inflammation, activate autophagy, remove kryptonite, add in the things that support you.
Julian Hayes II
(58:13) Yeah, just from what I've seen, men are much better at fasting than women.
Leslie Kenny
(58:18) Oh, yeah.
Julian Hayes II
(58:19) And also, because I think women in general don't, a lot of women don't eat enough as it is. (58:25) And so when you're compounding that with fasting, it just usually makes issues worse in the long-term, just from what I've seen. (58:31) Can't speak for everyone, but just from what I've seen.
Leslie Kenny
(58:34) Women are at their healthiest when they are at their peak of reproduction. (58:39) And the body, I talked about having all these antennae, it's constantly surveilling our environment, trying to determine if it's safe or not. (58:48) Is this the environment to bring a baby into?
(58:51) And if it perceives famine, because we have put ourselves on a strict diet, it's going to say, oh, let's hibernate. (59:00) Let's hang on to fat, because we're going to need that in this new famine situation. (59:08) And it will also rob us of our periods if we fast too long, because it says, well, this is not a good time to bring a child onto the planet, right?
Julian Hayes II
(59:21) And so, as we get ready to wrap this up, what's, let's say, what are you most excited about for the rest of the year? (59:29) Right now, as of now. (59:30) It may change later, but as of now.
Leslie Kenny
(59:33) Well, I'm really excited. (59:35) I'm really excited about some experiments that we're doing at the Space Innovation Lab with Dr. Al-Saleh. (59:42) And I'm also very excited about exhibiting at the Health Optimization Summit in Austin, Texas.
(59:52) And that's just not so long from now. (59:55) I think it's 12th, 13th, Saturday, Sunday in April, 12th and 13th of April. (1:00:02) And although we were the first to launch food-derived spermidine in the United States, and I obviously grew up in Southern California, we have not ever exhibited, or I've never spoken in the United States about this.
(1:00:19) So I'm really looking forward to that. (1:00:21) Yeah, it'll be a first for me, a first for the company. (1:00:25) And then over on the Oxford Longevity Project side of things, we are about to, we're partnering with Six Senses Resorts, which is part of Intercontinental Hotel Group.
(1:00:39) And I'll be doing a longevity dinner for as part of their women's wellness retreat. (1:00:47) I'll be doing that, gosh, I think week after, well, maybe two weeks from now, in the Douro Valley, Portugal, and that's their Napa Valley. (1:00:59) Yeah, so I'm excited about those two things.
(1:01:02) The rest of the year is kind of a blur. (1:01:04) You know, I kind of live day to day. (1:01:07) What is my schedule today?
(1:01:08) There's so much going on. (1:01:10) But those are the things I'm really keen about. (1:01:12) Oh, yes, and we've got our Smart Aging Summit.
(1:01:15) That's for the Oxford Longevity Project. (1:01:17) That will be on the 7th of June at Rhodes House at the University of Oxford. (1:01:22) This is the headquarters for the Rhodes Scholars around the world.
(1:01:26) And very excited to have a lot of forward thinking medical doctors and scientists who will be presenting their work, including Professor Jeremy Hoek, who's one of the world's leading experts on the placebo effect. (1:01:47) And we have a wonderful oncologist from Egypt who will be coming, who will be looking at integrative oncology. (1:01:59) So not just chemo, but really thinking about how to support the patient holistically with a wraparound program around diet and spirituality.
(1:02:11) And all of these things that spirituality is not always, people say, it's not evidence-based, but they do make us feel better. (1:02:19) For those who really respond to them, they are meaningful.
Julian Hayes II
(1:02:24) Yeah, yeah. (1:02:25) And I think having something to ground yourself to and hold on to, I think that can benefit everyone.
Leslie Kenny
(1:02:30) Yeah, yeah.
Julian Hayes II
(1:02:30) So I think that's enough research for me.
Leslie Kenny
(1:02:33) Yeah, exactly. (1:02:34) If it works for you, I don't care what it is, it works for you. (1:02:38) And that is all the proof that you need.
(1:02:41) So, yeah, if anybody wants to fly out to Oxford, England, stay at Rhodes House, have a full day there and a nice lunch in Hall, that's on the cards. (1:02:53) Just go to OxfordLongevityProject.org for info.
Julian Hayes II
(1:02:57) Okay. (1:02:57) And I will have that, I'll have that in the show notes as well on there. (1:03:00) Excellent.
(1:03:01) And I guess the last question here, I'm gonna change it up than what I normally do. (1:03:05) So let's say someone comes up to you at say a coffee shop and they're gonna ask you, what are maybe three to five things? (1:03:15) And this is a woman, she's gonna ask what are three to five things I can do right now to improve my health and overall fertility?
Leslie Kenny
(1:03:25) Three to five things to improve your health and overall fertility. (1:03:30) Well, first of all, you want to make sure your hormones are in balance. (1:03:37) So I would test your, always test your hormones when you are healthy and young, because that is your baseline.
(1:03:45) So compare where you are right now to where your healthy baseline was and try and get back to that. (1:03:53) And please remember, hormones include thyroid hormones as well. (1:03:58) The next thing that you would do would be getting your diet and sleep and movement in order.
(1:04:06) If you are carrying a little bit of extra weight, like too much weight is definitely, it can create a challenge for the body to bring another life into the world. (1:04:18) So try to get to your healthy weight and get optimal sleep. (1:04:25) Again, we're trying to give the body signals that the environment is safe.
(1:04:31) This is a great time to bring a baby into the world because it's so safe. (1:04:37) So that also means you want to decrease stress. (1:04:41) I think a lot of women are overstressed.
(1:04:43) And if you are overstressed, you're gonna be increasing cortisol, which is inflammatory at the wrong time of the day. (1:04:50) You don't want it chronically elevated only in the morning and early afternoon. (1:04:54) And you're also robbing your progesterone when you do that.
(1:04:59) And you need progesterone to make the endometrium really thick and a welcoming environment for the embryo to implant. (1:05:11) So it sounds very basic, optimize your hormones, get diet, sleep, movement, stress in perfect balance. (1:05:25) For sure, you want to increase the amount of spermidine that you're getting.
(1:05:32) Always try to get it from plant sources first. (1:05:35) And then you can supplement as well to top up. (1:05:40) If you are undergoing IVF and you were told you have low ovarian reserve, then also spermidine is very helpful for that.
(1:05:52) DHEA, which is a precursor to the reproductive hormones can also be helpful too. (1:05:58) And I think it is now part of the new IVF protocols, but spermidine will also increase DHEA and pregnenolone, which is another precursor to all the reproductive hormones. (1:06:12) So those are my tips on what you should do before you get pregnant.
(1:06:17) And don't forget folate and B12.
Julian Hayes II
(1:06:20) Absolutely. (1:06:22) Just to make sure with the spermidine, so let's hypothetically, if someone doesn't have a lot of it in their typical diet, would you say like you earlier morning and at night, so two doses?
Leslie Kenny
(1:06:36) I always say bookend, bookend your fasting window. (1:06:41) So we have a natural fasting window when we sleep. (1:06:44) And if you break your fast in the morning with food, you take some spermidine and that will extend the fast you've had overnight.
(1:06:52) Equally at night with your last food. (1:06:55) So I used to say last meal, and then I heard all these people are like snacking between dinner and going to bed. (1:07:03) I was like, no, you actually have to have it with the last food of the night, right?
(1:07:07) In order to get those benefits. (1:07:10) So that's how I would say it. (1:07:13) You don't have to do both times.
(1:07:15) You could just do one time.
Julian Hayes II
(1:07:18) Awesome. (1:07:19) Perfect way to bookend this. (1:07:21) I really enjoyed this second round of conversation.
(1:07:24) I'm sure we will have a third one as well in the coming years. (1:07:27) Where can everyone keep up with you?
Leslie Kenny
(1:07:30) You can go to, for more on spermidine, you can go to OxfordHealthSpan, S-P-A-N.com. (1:07:39) For more on the Oxford Longevity Project, OxfordLongevityProject.org. (1:07:45) And if you want to hear me and see where I've spoken recently, see some of my past speaking engagements, you can go to lesliesnewprime.com.
(1:07:57) That's L-E-S-L-I-E-S, the new and prime. (1:08:01) Because I'm 59 still, it is a prime number. (1:08:05) I like to think I'm in my new prime of life.
Julian Hayes II
(1:08:09) I like it. (1:08:10) And you have a lot going on on your Instagram and that account as well. (1:08:13) I checked it out before we started talking just to see everything that you were doing.
Leslie Kenny
(1:08:17) Yeah, there is a lot there, yeah.
Julian Hayes II
(1:08:18) Yeah, so there's a lot of information there. (1:08:20) I will have links to everything that she talked about on there. (1:08:24) And until next time, listeners out there, stay awesome, be limitless.
(1:08:27) And as always, go be the CEO of your health and life and optimize today so you can lead tomorrow. (1:08:31) Peace.
