Former McKinsey CFO and President of Spring Mountain Captain Greg Ho on Setting Moonshot Goals In Health and Business
In today’s fast-paced world, achieving personal and professional success requires more than incremental progress—it demands bold vision and relentless perseverance. In a recent podcast episode, I had the privilege of sitting down with Greg Ho, former CFO of McKinsey and current President of Spring Mountain Capital, to discuss how he approaches life and business with an inspiring philosophy: setting moonshot goals.
Throughout our conversation, Greg shared insights from his journey, from growing up in Hawaii to becoming a finance, philanthropy, and health leader. His approach to goal-setting and leadership offers valuable lessons for anyone looking to push beyond their limits and leave a lasting impact.
Watch The Conversation
What Are Moonshot Goals?
Moonshot goals are audacious, long-term objectives that push us to think beyond what seems immediately possible. These goals are not about achieving small, incremental changes but aiming for monumental achievements that challenge our existing boundaries. For Greg, setting these goals is essential, both in his personal life and career.
When discussing the idea of moonshot goals, Greg emphasized the importance of thinking big. For example, he has set the ambitious target of running 100 marathons by age 100. While it may seem like an impossible feat, it motivates him to stay fit, focused, and driven—even when the journey gets tough.
As Greg puts it:
"When you set goals that are so high, even if you accomplish just 25% of them, you will have lived a remarkable life."
The Power of Resilience: Lessons from Running Marathons
Running marathons became a pivotal part of Greg’s life at 56. Despite initially facing knee problems and health challenges, he committed to running to raise money for charity and improve his personal health. Since then, he has completed numerous marathons and experienced profound benefits—physically and mentally.
For Greg, marathon running is a metaphor for life. Like any major business or personal growth goal, it’s a challenge that forces you to confront pain and uncertainty. Running requires stamina, discipline, and the ability to overcome discomfort—a process Greg describes as essential for improvement.
"You confront pain, you absorb it, and then you expand your capabilities. That's how athletes improve, and it's how we grow in life," he shared during the interview.
Greg’s story reminds us what often happens when we step outside our comfort zones. He doesn’t run because it’s easy; he runs because it challenges him to become better.
Applying Moonshot Goals in Business
Greg’s bold approach to setting goals isn’t limited to his health journey. He also applies it to his leadership and business ventures, most notably with his work at Spring Mountain Capital and the West Harlem Innovation Network.
After a successful career at McKinsey, where he served as CFO and led global operations, Greg shifted gears to focus on philanthropy and finance. His firm, Spring Mountain Capital, helps clients manage wealth while investing in areas that drive social change, like healthcare and education.
Through the West Harlem Innovation Network, Greg and his team are tackling inequities in healthcare by gathering proprietary data and building trust within underserved communities. He believes that solving these significant, complex societal problems requires bold thinking—and moonshot goals.
"We have to create models that bring data and information into the hands of those who need it most," Greg explained.
His vision is to build a sustainable network that improves marginalized groups' access to healthcare, ultimately leading to better outcomes for everyone.
Leadership: Walking the Walk
In addition to setting moonshot goals, Greg spoke extensively about what it takes to be a great leader in today’s world. For him, leadership is more than just giving commands or managing a team—it’s about leading by example and understanding each individual's strengths.
"Good leadership tries to understand each person and match them to the role that brings out their best," he said.
Greg also stressed the importance of authenticity and walking the walk. It’s not enough to talk about values or make bold statements—leaders must demonstrate through their actions that they are committed to their mission. This is why, within his organizations, Greg often encourages people to take on challenges like running marathons. It’s a way of building resilience, fostering growth, and showing that they, too, can set and achieve ambitious goals.
Balancing Expectations: Managing Stress and Achieving Growth
One of the standout insights from our conversation was Greg’s unique perspective on managing stress and expectations. While he advocates for setting ambitious goals, he also acknowledges the importance of tempering expectations for others and oneself.
Greg emphasizes celebrating success rather than punishing failure when working with teams or mentoring individuals. He believes that lowering expectations of others allows for more pleasant surprises, and helps people grow in a supportive, less stressful environment.
However, Greg takes the opposite approach to his goals. He sets extremely high expectations for himself, recognizing that he’ll still achieve great things even if he falls short. This balance between being kind to others and pushing oneself harder is vital to Greg’s leadership and personal success.
Final Thoughts: The Journey is the Success
Greg Ho’s philosophy ultimately boils down to this: success isn’t about reaching a final destination. It’s about the journey—constantly setting new goals, challenging yourself, and growing along the way. Whether it’s running a marathon, building a company, or solving societal issues, striving for greatness is where true fulfillment lies.
As Greg so wisely put it:
"If you stay on the right path, the finish line will show up."
So, what’s your moonshot goal? Take a page from Greg's playbook and aim high, whether it’s in your career, health, or personal life. You might just surprise yourself with what you can accomplish.
Connect With Greg Ho
Website: https://springmountaincapital.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/greg-ho-8985b9
Transcript
Greg Ho
(0:00) Somebody said, so you like running? (0:02) No, I don't like running. (0:04) It's painful.
(0:06) And I always aspire to be able to go out and run eight miles and feel really good. (0:11) No, every time I run is a confrontation with pain. (0:17) But that's how one actually improves.
(0:21) You confront pain, you absorb it. (0:24) Athletes know that. (0:26) You program your brain to accept it, and then you expand it.
(0:30) And then you understand that as you get less young, we don't say older, less young, just doing it, what you did the year before, it's not good enough because the forces that are making you old are getting stronger. (0:45) And so you have to do it even harder.
Julian Hayes II
(0:51) Greg, thank you so much for joining me. (0:54) And as we were talking about before we hit record, you grew up in Hawaii. (0:57) Now you're in New York.
(0:59) So I'm curious, what was Greg like as a child? (1:03) And would we be surprised at what he's become now?
Greg Ho
(1:11) Probably, yes, very surprised. (1:13) Grew up in a traditional Asian family in Hawaii, large family, and I would say lower middle class. (1:27) And basically, my parents like a lot of quiet times.
(1:31) So we were not encouraged to say a lot of things and make a lot of noise and apply ourselves. (1:37) So there's no surprise on that factor. (1:40) But moving out of the community and meeting other people, I think some people think I'm fairly gregarious after my first name turned out to be gregarious.
(1:58) I like that. (2:01) So it was very different because when I went to college, I was going to focus on becoming a chemist and working in a lab. (2:09) And I very quickly discovered that that's not what I wanted in life and that was not part of my nature.
(2:19) So that's a probably big surprise that I make as many relationships and like talking, meeting people and so forth.
Julian Hayes II
(2:30) What initially attracted you to the world of finance, investing, those sorts of things?
Greg Ho
(2:37) You know, interestingly, I had in the back of my mind investing because very early on, when I was 16, my father opened up an investment account. (2:54) I was very interested in a variety of things. (2:56) I decided to do a commodities trade and buy some corn.
(2:59) So I bought one corn contract, 5000 bushels of corn, just testing out the thought that prices would go up if the weather was really bad. (3:08) So I like reading almanacs and farmer's almanacs and whether it's going to be very bad. (3:14) So I bought some corn contracts and and made a lot of money because the weather was bad and corn prices went up.
(3:22) So in the back of mind, hey, this is really cool. (3:24) If you know, as a as a kid, you want to figure out how to make money. (3:28) So I spent a lot of my time in terms of next stage in life going through books as to how could I earn more money and have a better lifestyle?
(3:39) Now, other things that are intervened and I went far, far away. (3:45) And that's been basically the story of my life. (3:49) It's sort of in my belief philosophically that, you know, if you observe, you'll eventually be guided into the right slots because it's a natural occurrence.
(4:04) You could be unlucky and that doesn't happen. (4:06) But if you observe and listen, you find out what you do, you should do. (4:10) So interestingly, investments, my investments started sometime when I was at McKinsey just because of a partner asking me a question about what we call an undervalued situation, a special situation.
(4:31) And so that launched it. (4:32) And I kept in the back of my mind, OK, remember, I'm going to come back to this at some point. (4:37) But I didn't start Spring Mountain Capital until 2001, which was fairly long in my career.
Julian Hayes II
(4:47) Yeah. (4:47) When I was researching you and I listened to a previous interview of yours and you mentioned the book Perspective on McKinsey. (4:54) And that's a very hard book to find.
(4:56) I found me a copy, but it's a very hard book to find. (4:59) I haven't read it.
Greg Ho
(4:59) Because it wasn't published, it's not distributed.
Julian Hayes II
(5:02) Oh, that's why. (5:03) OK. (5:03) So that's why.
(5:04) OK. (5:04) But I guess I feel lucky now. (5:05) But I haven't got to go through it yet.
(5:08) But I guess that kind of that makes me feel better now. (5:11) But I guess what were some of the lessons from McKinsey that you that you have taken with you in your career now and everything?
Greg Ho
(5:19) Yeah. (5:20) So it was a book by Marvin Bauer and and he gave it to all individuals who joined the firm. (5:28) I actually might have given it to partners with a request that it not be distributed, sold or otherwise copied.
(5:37) And it told his story. (5:39) I had the pleasure of starting life out at McKinsey next door to Marvin and sharing his assistant. (5:48) And so Marvin decided that he'd come in and lecture me on a couple of things or give me guideposts.
(5:55) And one of the things which has always been a guide in my life and informs me also with respect to everyone I mentor here in the current project, West Harlem Innovation Network, that I'm working on is and it in itself is an extension of that. (6:15) And that is if you do the right thing, everything else will follow. (6:23) And it kept on reminding me that even when I became CFO of McKinsey, he didn't want me to plow into numbers, even though one of the reasons I would is because I understood numbers was do the right thing and everything else will follow.
(6:39) So that was one of the I would say that is the leading guide of my life. (6:50) We can go on to others, but that one stands out above all. (6:53) That's in the book.
(6:54) That's in the book.
Julian Hayes II
(6:57) I would love to hear if you have a couple more top of mind. (7:00) I would love to hear a few more insights from that, because that's a I think sometimes listeners might hear that and they'll say that it's something that is conceptually easy to grab to do the right thing. (7:14) But in the heat of the moment, as you're going through your journey, whether you're an early stage entrepreneur or you're in the C-suite or something, it's a little more harder at times to actually apply.
Greg Ho
(7:26) Mm hmm. (7:27) Okay. (7:28) Another lesson I learned, I came in under an individual who was a real taskmaster.
(7:35) And he took Socratic learning to the nth degree and he really punished you if you made a mistake. (7:42) He didn't care about punishing you for the mistake. (7:45) He really, really cared about learning why you made the mistake and how to fix it.
(7:51) Right. (7:51) And he tortured you to death on it so that on top of that, he felt that you would never repeat the mistake. (7:58) And one day, one of my mentors pulled me aside and said, great, look, it's really worked well for this individual.
(8:07) And that's why we made him senior partner. (8:10) But not all people are like that. (8:14) And if we were to temper it a little bit, this fellow starts out with high expectations.
(8:22) If you don't meet him, he becomes really nasty. (8:26) That creates a lot of stress in your life. (8:30) What you should do is lower your expectations of people.
(8:34) And when they surprise, celebrate their success versus punishment for when they don't surprise, right, for failure. (8:46) So a very important thing was therefore to understand that people are imperfect. (8:58) You yourself are imperfect and or I myself am imperfect.
(9:02) And just as you don't like being punished for your imperfections, lower your expectations. (9:11) If you bring your expectations, if you have zero expectations, you have pleasant surprises often. (9:19) And if you have high expectations, you'll have disappointments in life often.
(9:25) So there are many ways to apply that lesson. (9:28) Very, very important when dealing with people and trying to be a leader. (9:32) This is what it's about.
(9:33) It's sort of different people react but celebrate success more than punish failure.
Julian Hayes II
(9:39) Mm-hmm. (9:40) And I feel like that's also a great way to also not as to almost mitigate stress a little bit. (9:48) Unnecessary stress.
Greg Ho
(9:50) Oh, absolutely. (9:51) Absolutely. (9:52) Mitigate stress.
(9:54) And in fact, someone else said, well, how do you reduce stress? (10:00) Reduce expectations. (10:02) Mm-hmm.
(10:03) Now, just like we always ask, there's push, pull, and everything, right? (10:10) I don't reduce the expectations of myself, right? (10:16) The different lesson that I apply on that is, you know, if there's a need hierarchy, which I've mentioned various people, Maslow's need hierarchy, right?
(10:35) Maslow was a guy who went to CCNY in Harlem, by the way, and he developed a need hierarchy. (10:40) Yes. (10:40) So Abraham Maslow, food, shelter, safety, security, belonging, and then self-esteem.
(10:51) And then fifth need, which people don't achieve because they don't really need it, is self-actualization, which is understanding that why you were here to improve what is, right? (11:10) And some people have a need and some don't, which is why Maslow said not everybody achieves self-actualization, right? (11:18) And many people don't have the circumstances to do that.
(11:23) But if you do, you might find that on your deathbed, you don't want to sit around and say, oh, shoot, you know, I'm sorry I didn't do this. (11:33) What a waste. (11:34) So one of the motivations is not wasting any of the precious time.
(11:42) We're all going to die sooner or later, so let's not go waste it. (11:45) Let's not waste the talent or the good fortune that you've had. (11:51) So I set goals way, way far, like the marathon goal that you might have heard about that I've set, they're way out there.
(12:02) And the way I deal with stress is that the goals are way out there so that even if I accomplish only 25% of them, I will have lived a remarkable life and not wasted it. (12:19) So the other thing is set your expectations high for your goals high for yourself, but don't think you're going to achieve them all. (12:31) Just set them so high that when you die, there is nothing left.
(12:39) There's no unused time.
Julian Hayes II
(12:44) And it almost seems that you have nothing to lose by setting these huge moonshot goals. (12:49) You have nothing to lose and everything to gain. (12:52) Whereas a lot of times, and I assume then that when you set these large moonshot goals, it almost forces you to expand and grow because you think these little steps are not going to get it done with these types.
(13:07) So it's almost a form of forcing yourself to grow exponentially.
Greg Ho
(13:13) Exactly. (13:13) It's a way of forcing yourself to grow. (13:15) It challenges you, right?
(13:19) And then challenges create stress. (13:22) Stress creates an improvement. (13:25) That's how athletes improve.
(13:26) They stress themselves. (13:27) They challenge themselves.
Julian Hayes II
(13:30) And so I'm curious, back in 2001, what was the inspiration, the impetus for founding Spring Mountain Capital?
Greg Ho
(13:41) I started my career as a lawyer in New York City. (13:46) And from that, I thought I'd head back to the West Coast and be an entertainment lawyer. (13:53) But somehow McKinsey came into my lap and I turned to finances.
(14:02) And among other things, I formed the McKinsey Investment Office. (14:07) And then I traveled the world, dealt with people, set up offices in 30-odd countries over 16 years with partners who wanted to go to new countries. (14:19) So then my daughter was born.
(14:21) I decided to take some time off. (14:23) And the game plan anyway was to leave anything I was doing at age 45 and open another chapter in my life. (14:31) So I took three years off.
(14:32) And when I decided to reenter, I thought about entrepreneurship, which is something I had thought about a long time ago. (14:40) And then a curious thing came up. (14:43) A person introduced me to my partner, Lonnie Stephens, who was at the time vice chairman of Merrill Lynch and the leader of their wealth management practice.
(14:54) And he thought it was a good link up if we added someone who thought about asset management to the mix. (15:01) And so we formed Spring Mountain Capital. (15:03) And I said, if you live in New York, you should experience law, consulting, and finance.
(15:14) So it was a logical next step. (15:16) And so I'll be here until 90, and then I'll go figure something else.
Julian Hayes II
(15:22) So why 90? (15:25) Oh, OK. (15:25) It's 45-year increments, right?
Greg Ho
(15:27) 45-year increments. (15:28) And I figured there was a reasonable shot that someone born in my year could live beyond 100. (15:40) And there'd be at least three chapters in my life, 45, 90, 135.
(15:50) And notably, the oldest person in the world just died the other day. (15:54) She was 117. (15:57) So the second oldest became the first oldest.
(16:00) How old is that person? (16:01) That person is 116, right? (16:04) So we're already there 50 years in advance.
(16:07) Now, life expectancy increased from 1960 to 2019 by 19 years. (16:15) And another 50 years from now, we might be looking at 135. (16:20) So it actually works out pretty well.
Julian Hayes II
(16:22) It does. (16:23) And I like to think, and this is how I thought about it too. (16:27) I have an uncle.
(16:28) He's in his early 100s now. (16:30) And he doesn't know none of these technological interventions. (16:34) He doesn't know biohacking, none of these terms, longevity, none of this.
(16:38) He just lived his life and he got to 100. (16:41) And so for me, what I was thinking is that, OK, if he can do that without any knowledge of this stuff that's here and this stuff that's coming on the horizon, then why couldn't people live to 130 plus with ease? (16:52) I just figured that it's easy to do.
Greg Ho
(16:58) You know, it's not easy to do, but you can accomplish a lot of it by what you do along the way for yourself. (17:11) And you can read a variety of books in terms of longevity and aging, and they bring in the various factors of society. (17:18) There's Becca Levy's book.
(17:20) There's Peter Atiyah's book on outlive. (17:24) There's interestingly, Venkri Ramakrishnan's recent book. (17:30) He's a Nobel Prize who wrote the book Why We Die.
(17:34) And he puts in hints, helpful hints on what you can do. (17:37) And in all of these, you find that there are certain principles that enable your body to protect against premature death. (17:52) The two parts of the equation, wellness, and then the second part actually postpone aging.
(18:01) Right. (18:01) So the rest of medicine then takes over. (18:04) OK, fine.
(18:05) If you can't leave, avoid early death, premature death, and you can't avoid the eventual impact of aging, right, then they address and they try to fix it. (18:18) Now, how far can you push it out there? (18:20) And if you can push it way out there, it actually might be a pleasant surprise.
(18:24) Because the other pleasant surprise in Ramakrishnan's book and Venkri Ramakrishnan's book is that, you know, they find that people live into the 100 something years old. (18:38) They actually have a pretty good life spot. (18:40) They're mentally there because they're still thinking in divisions.
(18:44) Brain is functioning and controlling things. (18:47) And then they don't have a long period of convalescence. (18:50) One day they just wake up dead and it just all falls apart.
(18:57) So if there's any motivation, you should really try to push the envelope on that one. (19:03) Then you can avoid the years of unhealthy or, you know, moderate health living. (19:14) Yeah, that's a very interesting stat in itself that there's 19 years, more years from 1960 to 2019 of life expectancy global.
(19:23) But the percentage in good health versus poor to moderate health is still 50-50. (19:32) And so, great, 19 more years, but you got nine and a half more years of not so good health. (19:39) And that's not a good prospect.
(19:40) So until we fix that, the smart thing to do is just try to push out and then just die all of a sudden.
Julian Hayes II
(19:50) Yeah, it's the focus on—it's focusing on the lifespan, but you also have to think about the healthspan and then also, you know, the wellspan of just the day-to-day of that life as well. (20:03) So I think it's a three-pronged approach to tackle that issue. (20:08) But there is thankfully a lot more that we can take control of now.
(20:11) Now some communities—and this will probably tie into some of the stuff that you're doing—is different communities, different groups of people have lesser access to that type of information and those possibilities. (20:23) And so that leads me to some of the stuff that you're doing with the West Harlem Innovation Network. (20:28) And I guess my first question is, what got you into just a focus on uplifting some of these marginalized communities?
Greg Ho
(20:37) Good, a variety of reasons. (20:39) I'm glad you mentioned some of the words that you mentioned, like information and the lack of information and everything else on it. (20:50) The—if—first, you go back to living in the city and this tremendous diversity in it, and then you take a look at your neighbors and you decide, hey, I really like living in the city.
(21:02) Now, if you are any bit observant, there are forces at work that are pulling the city apart. (21:11) And that is because money matters and some people don't have it and they suffer all sorts of consequences from it. (21:23) Not only health, they lose their homes and everything else.
(21:27) Interestingly, I saw Brookings Institution piece the other day that pointed out being poor is getting more expensive. (21:36) Never mind inflation, it's getting really more expensive. (21:38) Being poor is getting more expensive, right?
(21:42) You can't afford to be poor. (21:45) Interesting. (21:46) Nevertheless, so one of the motivations with respect to Harlem underrepresented minorities, socioeconomically disadvantaged communities, if we want this to be a nice place, we've got to pay attention to the inequities.
(22:05) And if you were lucky enough to make—you've got to pay attention to the inequities. (22:10) Now, we're writing a piece on what we're doing. (22:16) We're sort of explaining it.
(22:17) Take a look at the stats. (22:19) If you're black, you have a higher propensity towards Alzheimer's and Parkinson's, have higher propensity toward dying from it. (22:28) In terms of what we spoke about earlier, in terms of preventing early death, breast cancer, prostate cancer, you have higher propensity if you're black of having it and dying from it.
(22:43) And when you take a look at the studies, people don't understand why. (22:48) And the reason we don't understand why is that we don't have enough data to put people on the information highway being developed for everybody else to discover how to treat or avoid these things. (23:03) The information is not out there.
(23:05) So it's not only access and the information. (23:08) Now, why isn't the information there? (23:11) Information's not there because of trust.
(23:13) So when, as I said, when you look around and you take a look at, okay, great, multiple heads, can I bring together the pieces there? (23:23) And so we sat around, I have some creative young people like to think of problem solve, and we said, wouldn't it be great if we can reach across our chasms, economic, race, and everything else, work with other individuals on a problem that is not only an equity issue, it's a very big cost issue. (23:48) It's going to cost this society tons of money, which flip side of it, if you solve the problem, you should get paid for it.
(23:58) And it's an investable theme. (24:01) You look at all the decks you see, here's the problem, here's the cost. (24:05) I solve this problem, I'm going to make a lot of money.
(24:08) We look at it the same way. (24:10) So the transition is, wow. (24:15) Now, we like looking at things that just people don't explore because it crosses traditional silos.
(24:23) And so what West Harlem Innovation Network is bringing together diverse viewpoints, finding the synergies and the various things, bringing information to the table, and among other things, dropping it into the highways, the informational highways being built for the community at large. (24:44) And it's not because those people at the top level are bad people building the informational highways, informational highways get built with information. (24:54) The community doesn't have the information.
(24:58) Okay, why does it have the information? (25:01) If I were a generic member of a disadvantaged minority, I might be very leery about giving people information about my health and my genomic background, my DNA background, et cetera. (25:23) Right?
(25:23) So, okay, great. (25:26) Now, what we do is we find things that are hard to do if we think we can solve them, because if you do, that can be a pretty good investment result. (25:40) So can we create the trust?
(25:42) Can we create a model? (25:44) So our model is we go into the community, we employ people from the community, we get trust of the groups, we protect that info, we have proprietary data. (25:57) And as anybody tells you, whether you're in computational biology or artificial intelligence, it's not the algorithm.
(26:05) It's the data. (26:07) You have proprietary data. (26:09) Now, from the proprietary data, we can unleash a lot of other synergies.
(26:14) And that's what it's all about. (26:16) So we're there because of the inequity. (26:21) We're there because we solve the problem.
(26:26) It's a very investable theme. (26:29) And finally, I'm there because I'm going to feel really good about it, and so will my team. (26:35) So when we look at people and we explain the idea, it's sort of sign me up, please sign me up.
(26:42) So it's really fascinating that in this particular generation, before they become spoiled by becoming investment bankers, not that they don't serve a function, but they have a current consciousness about as they elevate themselves versus after they elevate themselves and set in their spin levels, they put it up there. (27:11) Now, that's exciting. (27:12) So that's why I'm there.
Julian Hayes II
(27:13) So is it almost like when you catch someone a little younger, you can their ability in terms of their mindset is a little more malleable? (27:22) Is that kind of the thinking as well, when you catch it in before they become super, super successful investment bankers or anything like that?
Greg Ho
(27:31) Yeah, it's sort of, you know, it's just like the way the brain works. (27:33) After you give it a whole set of rules, it begins locked up and it becomes less creative. (27:38) Every which way you learn a language structure, you lock down and it's hard to learn another language.
(27:44) The question is at an early stage, can you keep those pathways open? (27:48) Right? (27:49) So then they're not locked down by other constraints, which is why our model is a studio model.
(27:56) We get the idea. (27:57) We then, we have a recruiting firm. (28:01) Everybody says, oh yeah, I'm going to do it, but they want to hire their networks.
(28:05) I don't have those networks. (28:06) So we hired a recruiting firm, a black woman, black military vet, head of recruiting. (28:13) They will supply the talent.
(28:16) We will be very selective on the talent, but at an early stage, they'll come here because they're not locked down by their material needs. (28:26) So we're studio model investing. (28:28) We're mentor heavy and every leader is not an investment banker.
(28:35) They're mentor. (28:36) I can supply the investment banking. (28:37) We got that experience, but the leaders of our project are mentor types.
(28:46) Yeah.
Julian Hayes II
(28:48) And so are there different industries and that are kind of being incubated here in terms of diversifying, like the types of industries that people are being mentored in and different aspects?
Greg Ho
(29:02) Yeah. (29:03) If you enter in a community, you also have to be here and now and focus and add individuals who don't have life science backgrounds, but as people like Ken Frazier was CEO of Merck pointed out, hey, 40% of my jobs in my big pharma do not need advanced degrees. (29:24) So we thought about things that would be workforce training into life sciences, number one, and we took a look at the auxiliary aspects of maintaining health, which is among other things, what you eat.
(29:42) And interestingly, there is a lot between food preparation and even food growing, urban, hydroponic growing, for instance, that prepares you for lab work, right? (29:57) But there's also health. (30:00) I saw an article that just came out today about how everybody knows that eating highly processed foods are bad for your brain.
(30:13) And we're feeding those things to our children. (30:15) We're setting them up. (30:16) Talk about locking down by limitations.
(30:19) You're also locking it down. (30:20) So the theme is food as health. (30:23) So we are into food.
(30:28) But just through circumstance, people eat food because they enjoy the taste. (30:35) So we're going to have something that has some sensitivity to taste. (30:41) So food is a separate way.
(30:44) It's not all science. (30:45) They're aware, but they're going to try to do formulations that are healthy by understanding the combinations and the ingredients and the taste and adapt, say, a high carb diet to a less. (31:01) So food is an education, very important.
(31:06) People are still trying to draw the links, but there is a real correlation between education and the lower frequency of Alzheimer's and other neurodegenerative diseases. (31:25) So education is a wing of what we're doing. (31:30) So food, education, life sciences.
(31:35) Of course, I touched on the theme data. (31:38) So all those guys who are doing data systems, data gathering, proprietary data, life science tools are also part of it. (31:47) So we're four parts, food, life sciences, but not just cures, diagnostic devices and so forth, because hey, you know, the biggest factor of women dying from breast, black women dying from breast cancer is access, affordability and early identification.
Julian Hayes II
(32:09) Yeah, absolutely.
Greg Ho
(32:10) We got to do those parts.
Julian Hayes II
(32:12) And so you mentioned data and AI is a big part of that. (32:17) So I assume AI is a big aspect of the plant as well.
Greg Ho
(32:23) Yeah. (32:24) You know, interestingly, AI is much too expensive for our scale. (32:32) The other guys will develop AI, Google, Microsoft, AI.
(32:37) They'll do it. (32:40) Their fuel, right, first got data storage. (32:44) So people, there are articles on the power demands of all of that.
(32:48) Then there's a processing demands. (32:50) But what is the most essential fuel? (32:52) And if you go through it, it's the data.
(32:56) Now, already in terms of one of our tool sets, we're being approached by some of the AI guys. (33:02) Hey, how much data are you putting into the table? (33:06) Oh, tons.
(33:08) What's the nature of that data? (33:10) And what's the kind of programming? (33:13) You know, I need fourth dimensional, fifth dimensional programming.
(33:18) Oh, OK, great. (33:20) They'll build those systems. (33:22) We'll get the we'll build the data and they'll come to work with us.
(33:26) So I don't think we're going to develop AI systems, but we'll be partners in helping the vast amounts of the engineers to do it. (33:36) Maybe we acquire somebody along the way and do that, but that's not in the game plan.
Julian Hayes II
(33:42) I'm curious, five to 10 years out or so, what would you say a successful social impact or successful venture of this looks like? (33:53) What would it look like?
Greg Ho
(33:56) It's success in relationship to how much we bring. (33:59) If we can raise half a billion dollars into it, into this project, I'd like to see four to five public companies based in Harlem that are publicly listed companies. (34:16) Therefore, at least two of them, unicorns implying a couple thousand people in life sciences in Harlem with a pretty significant impact on the wealth of the community.
(34:30) I'd like to in terms of my personal measures of success, whether we have enough people come and study the model and learn and take it out to the other locations, not doing necessarily the same thing because there are lots of other areas for which you could generate what we call synergistic ecosystems in life sciences and tech. (34:57) The various things, as I pointed out, you have to involve private capital in this. (35:06) To involve private capital, you have to have an uncompromising focus on generating investment returns.
(35:18) Take it out of non-profit hands because I point out, whoever works in this should be paid the same as the guy who goes into a wealthy community or goes to Wall Street gets paid. (35:33) Our intention is to pay our people well so that and basically reverberates well to the community. (35:44) If we bring your kids back here to Harlem and they work on something of significant importance, I intend to pay them well.
(35:54) My father did not want me to go back to Hawaii after I came back here. (35:59) He said, there's nothing for you. (36:01) There's nothing for you so I never saw my father very much after I left for college.
(36:09) It was his desire because he wanted me to accomplish something. (36:14) I don't want to have people feel that their kids who come back and take care of them are compromising on the promises that they set them up for.
Julian Hayes II
(36:27) That's a big issue right there because a lot of times where people grow up at, sometimes, especially if it's not just in a major metropolitan city or something or on the outskirts of it, there's just not a lot of incentive for them to come back and to help build that community up.
Greg Ho
(36:46) Yeah, as I pointed out, I was going to give a lecture at a social policy group. (36:53) I said, you know, there's too much focus on zip code and the disadvantages of children who grow up within certain zip code. (37:02) The focus then is to remove the individual from the zip code which enables them to then develop like other individuals.
(37:12) That is good. (37:15) This is not a criticism that that was wrong. (37:17) That was good because nobody was improving the zip code.
(37:20) The fact is that two things happen unless you begin at some point to change and not, in effect, strip mine the assets of the community and move them into wealthier communities. (37:38) It's good for the individual, but long term that does not enable you to change the community. (37:47) What we do is we need to change these communities so that we have some equity and equality around the city versus poor spots and bad zip codes and so forth.
Julian Hayes II
(38:07) Yeah. (38:08) It seems like Harlem would have, because there's a lot of opportunity in Harlem, even during just my short time there. (38:14) It's been some years since then.
(38:17) I always just wonder why there wasn't just more being poured into Harlem.
Greg Ho
(38:24) You know, probably lots of reasons. (38:30) When I give reasons why things don't happen, they sound like criticisms. (38:33) I'd rather not.
(38:34) We're going to Harlem because when we went there, among other things, one of our partners is the Greater Harlem Chamber of Commerce. (38:44) We found them amazingly open. (38:47) Suspicious because other people said we're going to do these things and it resulted in gentrification and then removal and so forth and then leaving at first opportunity.
(38:58) They looked into it and we found very pleasantly there was a leadership that was important. (39:06) We already saw that coming in on the education side. (39:10) If you look at education and the experiments on education there, they've been occurring for years and years and years in Harlem with success.
(39:21) They just haven't been adopted for other reasons as rapidly as they should, but they were brave enough to have other models. (39:32) One of the things that really took us into Harlem was the engagement and the interest of the leadership to move forward and the understanding also of the blend of diversity versus, you have to put a headline, I want black-owned black run because there's a point to be proven there. (39:58) We get that and there will be black-owned, black-founded and black-led, but everybody's in agreement that we can have the most innovative formulations if we put everybody else.
(40:13) Very accepting, very, if you want, progressive community on that front and it's just the right place. (40:24) Plus, as I said, mentorship, I got to be there.
Julian Hayes II
(40:27) Yeah. (40:29) What do you think good leadership looks like in today's modern world?
Greg Ho
(40:39) Good leadership. (40:44) Good leadership, I think, has got to back its words by action. (40:55) You have a generation that are looking for leadership.
(40:59) They don't want to be preachers. (41:01) They want to emulate something that they see as good. (41:06) They want to follow individuals who walk the walk and so forth.
(41:17) That's a primary. (41:19) Second, good leadership tries to understand each of the individuals, personalize the experience versus, okay, you're my troops and fine, this is what you have. (41:39) It tries to match each trooper, if you like, to the thing that enables them to bring out the best part of themselves.
(41:52) So even though you might have said, no, I want to do this, I need this job, you're available, you do it. (42:00) Good leadership understands the individuals versus just gives the commands. (42:07) I think those are two things on the leadership side of the equation, particularly if you're dealing with diverse individuals.
Julian Hayes II
(42:18) Mm-hmm. (42:19) Yeah. (42:20) Do you remember what you said when we talked about off camera, when you said about the diversity in New York City and just the potential of that when it's harnessed optimally?
Greg Ho
(42:31) Yes. (42:35) This has the strength to be the best city in the world because the innovation comes from diversity. (42:47) Now, why?
(42:48) One of the reasons is people who are thinking out of the box and bringing different perspectives versus thinking like a Borg. (42:58) Borgs don't create diversity. (43:00) They create force and momentum to a particular thing.
(43:04) So when I take look at New York City, there is a vast amount of diversity. (43:11) Manhattan is not as diversified as Queens, but to give you an example, the head of our food startup started the Queens night market, which has rapidly become one of the known night markets in the world. (43:30) Why?
(43:31) Because they took the theme of the night market, but they matched it with the diversity in Queens. (43:43) I forget how many by count. (43:46) We tried to feature over the last nine years every cuisine.
(43:52) And I think John Wang tells me there are some like 90. (43:56) And so the power of bringing everybody in the curiosity around the discussions that people have is just wonderful. (44:09) And so you can do things with diversity that are pretty amazing.
Julian Hayes II
(44:15) And I'm going to shift gears a little bit and talk about your personal health and that journey as well. (44:22) I saw that anyone who wants to say that they are a late bloomer, and there's an adage that it's never too late to get started. (44:31) And that's definitely true.
(44:32) Because I think I saw correctly that it was around age 50 that you started to get into running marathons and really taking more ownership of your health. (44:42) Was that correct?
Greg Ho
(44:43) Yeah. (44:43) No, actually, yes. (44:46) I ran my first marathon at age 56.
(44:51) And I always thought I was in pretty good shape. (44:55) But one day my wife decides that now if I really want to live as long as I want to live, that I should be in better health. (45:04) So she linked me up with an intense personal trainer, very intense.
(45:11) And then I realized how out of shape I was. (45:14) Now, I, since I've always focused on inner cities, or cities, and poverty, education, the Robin Hood Foundation came up to me one day and said, Hey, you want to run a marathon? (45:30) So I said, I don't run marathons, I have bad knees.
(45:36) And they said, but you could raise a lot of money. (45:38) And I said, sure, I could raise a lot of money if I went out and started running again. (45:43) So I said, give me a year.
(45:45) So they asked me when I was 55, 56, I decided I could. (45:48) I checked with my cardiologist, my orthopedist, and he said, Yeah, but no more than one or two. (45:56) Otherwise, you'd be bone on bone and your knees will be replacement.
(46:01) Right, so I did it. (46:03) Loved it. (46:04) Of course, everybody wanted the measurements on my health.
(46:08) And so the blood test results came back, there were dramatic improvements. (46:16) It was pretty astounding. (46:18) Secondly, on the osteoarthritis fund, just like big German studies showed, if you have knee problems, and you can run, and you continue running reasonably, don't try to set world records right away, the deterioration of your knees will slow.
(46:41) Not slow, they just observed that they couldn't figure out why. (46:46) So with that, and the fact that I raised a lot of money, I said, Okay, I'll do the next one. (46:52) And the next one became the next one.
(46:55) And then a couple people decided to join me. (46:57) And, and then I said, Okay, great. (46:59) Let's see if I can raise a million bucks got to that, and then became 2 million bucks.
(47:04) And I thought, Hey, this is pretty cool. (47:06) Great health improvements. (47:09) Knee is not getting worse.
(47:10) In fact, the osteoarthritis we saw, clear it up. (47:15) Mind you, not because of running, but all the other things you do. (47:21) The feeling because of endorphins and everything that you're superhuman.
(47:26) That's really cool. (47:28) So even though somebody said, Do you so you like running? (47:33) No, I don't like running.
(47:35) It's painful. (47:37) And I always aspire to be able to go out and run eight miles and feel really good. (47:42) No, every time I run is a confrontation with pain.
(47:48) But that's how one actually improves. (47:52) You confront pain, you absorb it. (47:56) Athletes know that you program your brain to accept it, and then you expand it.
(48:01) And then you understand that as you get less young, we don't say older, less young. (48:09) Just doing it. (48:11) What you did the year before, it's not good enough, because the forces that are making you old are getting stronger.
(48:17) And so you have to do it even harder. (48:19) So I went from one marathon a year to saying, Okay, let's do something reasonable given the time. (48:25) So let's say, let's let the long term go.
(48:29) So I set the goal of running my 100th marathon at age 100. (48:34) And the and I told contributors, you should contribute to my any of my charities. (48:42) If I actually do it, you invite be invited to the party.
(48:47) And that party could be an outer space, right? (48:52) I keep working to age 100. (48:55) And I'm running marathons, I'll be able to take you wherever the hell it is.
Julian Hayes II
(49:01) Yeah, I'll be there with you at that party. (49:03) I love to see that. (49:04) And you know, and that's inspiration for me to keep pushing myself and everything.
(49:08) Yeah, because I even have friends now that are already and I'm in my mid 30s. (49:13) And you already have people already talking about, Oh, my body's breaking down. (49:17) Like, what are you talking about?
(49:18) You're like, you're like an adolescent. (49:20) We're like adolescents. (49:21) Still, I'm an adolescent is pretty much how I look at it.
(49:24) Because with with with like, like we talked about the beginning with how age with how the sciences are going right now and the information that we have and where it's going that people I think a lot of times people don't have that horizon and don't realize just, you know, how exponentially things are going to grow in this arena.
Greg Ho
(49:43) Yes, you're exactly right. (49:45) That is that is so true. (49:48) And the uh, everybody, virtually everybody I work with in this project ends up running.
(49:58) Everyone who is is at the managing director level and mentor ends up running a marathon. (50:06) It's not required. (50:07) It's not job requirements.
(50:08) Just sort of the the, as I said earlier, when you asked the question, you know, you got to walk the walk. (50:18) Right?
Julian Hayes II
(50:19) Absolutely. (50:19) Yeah. (50:21) So I, I 100% agree on that.
(50:24) I do not like running. (50:25) I started I picked up running, maybe about a year or so. (50:30) I always said I'm a sprinter.
(50:32) I'm more of a power athlete. (50:33) I didn't come from this world of athletics when I played. (50:36) And I just did it one time and somebody really got to me.
(50:40) It's like, it's a challenge. (50:41) And it's painful, you know, cause I've done an ultra now and, um, it's an ultra.
Greg Ho
(50:47) That's impressive.
Julian Hayes II
(50:48) Yeah.
Greg Ho
(50:48) Yeah.
Julian Hayes II
(50:49) Yeah. (50:49) And I'm training for a longer one now. (50:50) And there's a, it's an interesting thing with running, which I think it's a good parallel for life.
(50:55) A lot of times you wonder because when my training, I'm like, how am I going to get 30 plus miles? (50:59) And I wasn't feeling that good today with 10. (51:01) And that means I have three more of these, but the thing is, if you just keep going, somehow you just finish it and you just improve.
(51:09) And I think that's a, such a good metaphor for life. (51:12) And also kind of to tie this back with the work you're doing. (51:15) I mean, you you're giving exposure and exposure is a huge thing.
(51:19) And it's the same thing in athletics. (51:20) When I saw someone my size that was running, that's all I needed to see. (51:24) When I go back to college and I saw people, um, doing things that I had no idea about, I had no idea about entrepreneurship or none of this stuff really.
(51:33) And I saw one person did it and I saw a person who looked like me do it. (51:37) And I was like, Oh, okay. (51:37) If this person can do it, then why couldn't I do it?
(51:39) And that's at the time we just need that one piece of exposure and that opens the floodgates to a lot of things.
Greg Ho
(51:45) It does. (51:46) It absolutely opens a floodgates, you know, um, on, on the point you, you, um, said, asked me earlier about, uh, things that inform me. (51:56) And I said, you know, do the right thing and everything will follow.
(51:58) I have a corollary in running marathons, which you might apply to try to get to your, which is if you stay on the right path, the finish line will show up.
Julian Hayes II
(52:12) Oh, I like that. (52:13) I like that.
Greg Ho
(52:13) So the, uh, uh, the, the downside for the ones who want to be scared, I say, suppose you quit, right? (52:25) And you go home, you call the Uber to pick you up halfway through, right. (52:31) And then you heal, you're going to be wondering, shoot, maybe I could have finished.
(52:40) Right. (52:41) And then the bigger consequence is that once you quit, you can never say I finished everything I started. (52:50) Right.
(52:51) And maybe that's not important to you. (52:53) It's important to me. (52:54) I like to finish the things I start.
(52:57) It's important to you when I explain an investment. (53:01) Um, Hey, I, I run 43 marathons so far in my last, uh, I started in old eight. (53:11) So I'm in my 17th year of running and, um, uh, I've never not finished a marathon no matter what the pain and you better believe, even if you have to walk, even if you have to walk, whatever you just, you just have to, you just have to, uh, um, just keep going.
Julian Hayes II
(53:34) That's, that's, that's pretty much been it. (53:35) Cause I've, I've had, I've had to walk at times. (53:39) Um, I'm better now with the, with the food strategies and stuff, but I've had some, um, very uncomfortable lessons, um, out there and it's, but I think it, it, it makes you mentally stronger.
(53:52) And I think that's the thing I really enjoy about running more so than lifting weights or boxing basketball or none of the other things. (53:58) It's just that the run, the running is really, uh, it's really just you versus you for the most part. (54:04) And you really get to see what you're made of.
Greg Ho
(54:07) Yep, exactly. (54:09) You can, and you can see what you're made of and then you can ask yourself, uh, decide for yourself if you can be better and you'll find out that you probably, probably can.
Julian Hayes II
(54:22) Absolutely. (54:23) I'm curious, uh, what does success mean to you?
Greg Ho
(54:33) Uh, you know, I give you an interesting answer to that, that question. (54:37) Uh, I've been asked that before, uh, and I've been thinking, in fact, somebody said I might be asked that and, um, success will only come when, uh, there's a challenge I can't think of, or there's a challenge. (55:04) Yeah.
(55:04) I can't think of a challenge that I don't, that doesn't challenge me. (55:08) In other words, if I find success or if I get to success, um, I will wonder a variety of things, whether I set the goals high enough, which means that I didn't succeed. (55:19) And so there, there is, there is unlike a marathon, there's no finish line on this one.
(55:26) Uh, there's, there's no goal. (55:28) So I'm in the, in one way, the ultimate ultra marathon. (55:33) It really isn't.
(55:34) You shouldn't, you shouldn't ever, if I finished a puzzle, I want to get a harder puzzle. (55:39) Right. (55:40) So, um, because I want to be a puzzle master.
(55:43) Well, if you ask puzzle master, uh, you know, what do you define as success? (55:48) Uh, well, okay. (55:50) When I finished all the puzzles that have ever been invented and, and solve the puzzle that nobody's ever, um, uh, solved.
(56:00) Well, the question then is, okay, has the puzzle that nobody's ever solved been invented yet? (56:06) No. (56:06) Okay, great.
(56:07) So I haven't succeeded. (56:09) It's a journey, success, ultimate success is journey. (56:14) Uh, now inside of that, there are many successes because you need like anything else, refreshment along the way to keep you going, to convince you that you're able to get to the next step.
(56:27) Uh, and so the ultimate success is something you should keep on laying out there and redefining.
Julian Hayes II
(56:35) And I like that. (56:37) I think that's a fantastic way to put a nice wrap on this conversation. (56:41) Um, Greg, this has been a awesome, awesome conversation.
(56:44) Uh, you inspired me to, um, have, well, I have another run tomorrow, so, um, all right.
Greg Ho
(56:49) Fantastic.
Julian Hayes II
(56:49) Yeah. (56:50) So, um, yeah. (56:51) Um, I think it's like eight miles or so, so, um, not too bad, but, um, where can, um, listeners and, and, and people that will probably view this now or not now, but, um, in the, in the future and even years down the line, where can we keep up with you at?
Greg Ho
(57:05) Well, uh, certainly, uh, you can find me on our website, springmountaincapital.com. (57:13) Uh, I have a LinkedIn site. (57:16) Uh, you can link, link, link in there.
(57:19) Uh, and, um, uh, I'll begin to post a little bit more. (57:24) Uh, we've created a site, uh, called Run Greg, and, um, the, we'll begin, we'll open up shortly and, um, that way people can track my marathon progress because that's where, uh, people who have contributed will keep me posted as to their whereabouts so that in hopefully, uh, eight, 28 years from now, when I run my hundredth marathon at age a hundred, uh, they can get the invitation to the party.
Julian Hayes II
(57:57) Absolutely.
Greg Ho
(57:58) Surprising. (57:59) I might, uh, uh, on the timing, I'll run my 90th at age 90, and I might decide to throw an interim party then. (58:09) So it's, it's not necessarily 28 years, could be, uh, within 18 years.
Julian Hayes II
(58:16) Um, either the case, it's, it's, it's going to be a fantastic achievement that, um, that everyone that, uh, should be inspired by, motivated by, and to, um, also have the, um, the mindset that, um, if Greg can keep doing this, then why can't I? (58:30) And that's, that's certainly how I'm going to look at it. (58:34) Um, and so once again, yeah.
(58:36) And so once again, listeners, thank you. (58:38) Thank you so much, Greg, for joining me and listeners out there. (58:41) Stay awesome.
(58:42) Be limitless. (58:43) And as always, go be the CEO of your health and your life. (58:45) Peace.
