Epignosis CEO Nikhil Arora on Leadership in the Modern Era and Conquering Personal Challenges
In the latest episode of our podcast, Julian Hayes II sits down with Nikhil Arora, CEO of Epignosis (TalentLMS), to explore the dynamic landscape of leadership in today's world. Nikhil's insights cover various topics, from purpose-driven leadership and building a strong company culture to his journey in endurance sports. With nearly two decades of global experience, Nikhil sheds light on how leaders can empower their teams, support continuous learning, and thrive amidst rapid technological and social changes.
Watch Episode
Key Takeaways from Nikhil Arora's Leadership Philosophy
1.Purpose-Driven Leadership
A commitment to people-centered, purpose-driven leadership is at the heart of Nikhil's leadership philosophy. He believes leaders need to articulate a bold and inspiring vision that motivates employees beyond profits and drives everyone toward a shared mission. By instilling purpose, leaders can make work more than just a job for their teams; they can foster a culture where each person feels their work has a real-world impact.
Nikhil reflects on his work with Epignosis, a learning platform serving over 22 million users across 158 countries. Epignosis's mission is to "unlock global potential" by empowering small and medium-sized businesses (SMBs) to thrive through accessible and affordable learning resources. In Nikhil's view, providing educational tools to these companies directly makes a meaningful difference in global productivity and individual lives.
2.The Connection Between Fitness and Leadership
As an avid endurance sports enthusiast, Nikhil draws many parallels between his athletic endeavors and his leadership journey. He explains that endurance sports like marathons and triathlons demand grit, discipline, and mental toughness—the same qualities essential for strong leadership. Whether it's running a marathon or leading a team, he believes in the importance of sticking to a rigorous process rather than focusing solely on the end result.
For Nikhil, athletic training is also a metaphor for personal growth. Each physical challenge, whether it's a marathon or an Ironman triathlon, requires hours of preparation and a willingness to push through discomfort. These experiences have instilled in him resilience, which he brings to his role as CEO. He suggests that leaders can learn a lot from testing their limits, as it builds mental and physical stamina that translates well into the business world.
3.Continuous Learning: The Key to Modern Leadership
Nikhil is a strong advocate for continuous learning—both for leaders and for their teams. His father, an avid reader and lifelong learner, inspired him to embrace learning as an ongoing process. In today's rapidly evolving landscape, Nikhil believes that success hinges on leaders' and employees' abilities to "learn, unlearn, and relearn." As he explains, employees are more likely to stay with companies that prioritize growth opportunities over high salaries, a view supported by recent studies.
At Epignosis, Nikhil fosters a culture of continuous learning by providing easy-to-access, relevant courses that allow employees to improve both their professional and personal skills. He shares that offering both types of content—technical or job-specific skills and personal development resources like mindfulness and wellness—empowers employees to be the best versions of themselves.
4.The Hybrid Work Model and Building Connections
With the shift to remote work in recent years, Nikhil discusses the importance of finding a balanced, hybrid work model. While flexibility is valuable, he believes that in-person connections are critical for building strong relationships and nurturing a collaborative culture. For Nikhil, in-person interaction fosters creativity and mentorship, enabling deeper learning and collaboration that often can't be replicated over video calls alone.
He suggests that hybrid work is the future for most companies, combining the benefits of remote work with the advantages of face-to-face interaction. Leaders can use this model to facilitate personal and professional growth for their teams, helping employees connect meaningfully without compromising on flexibility.
5.Leading with Empathy and Compassion
Beyond strategic vision, Nikhil emphasizes that great leaders need to be empathetic. He shares that his philanthropic efforts, mainly his work supporting caregivers, stem from personal experience. After seeing his parents struggle with illnesses like dementia and Parkinson's, Nikhil recognized the mental and emotional challenges family caregivers face. This inspired him to advocate for caregiver support networks, creating spaces where people can share their experiences and find comfort and advice from others in similar situations.
Nikhil's emphasis on empathy extends to his role as a CEO. He believes that understanding the personal journeys of employees and creating a supportive environment is vital for any leader. He can inspire a more motivated and engaged workforce by showing kindness and prioritizing his team's well-being.
Nikhil's Top Three Tips for Aspiring Leaders
In a world where change is constant, Nikhil offers these three foundational tips for those looking to grow as leaders:
Be People-Centric: Leadership is about being bold and kind, and a people-centered approach ensures you're motivating your team and building a positive culture.
Focus on the Customer's Problem, Not Just Your Solution: Too often, companies get stuck on their product rather than continuously addressing customer needs. True success comes from a deep commitment to solving the right problem for your customers.
Remove Obstacles for Your Team: Help your team by removing roadblocks rather than imposing control. This creates an environment where employees can do their best work and fully leverage their unique talents.
Conclusion: Building a Legacy of Growth and Transformation
Nikhil Arora's perspective on leadership in the modern era is a blend of resilience, compassion, and an unwavering commitment to learning. Whether he's leading a team or training for a triathlon, he believes in putting in the hard work, fostering a sense of purpose, and creating opportunities for others to grow. His story is a testament to how effective leadership can empower not only individuals but entire communities, as he's doing with Epignosis by providing learning tools that unlock potential around the world.
Nikhil's insights on endurance, empathy, and growth offer a robust roadmap for leaders looking to thrive in today's fast-paced, interconnected world. From nurturing a people-first culture to embracing the hybrid work model, this episode provides invaluable lessons for anyone aspiring to make a meaningful impact.
Connect with Nikhil Arora
Epignosis Website: https://www.epignosishq.com/
TalentLMS Website: https://www.talentlms.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nikhil-arora17
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nikhilarora.official/
Transcript
Nikhil Arora
(0:00) I had started experimenting with running as kind of the first activity and you know what I realized (0:07) was that until you do something hard labor well-earned you don't complete your own kind of (0:17) growth runway which you could potentially do because you know there is the (0:25) professional side of things or there's the academic side of things but (0:29) this is a place you have to put in the hours, there is no shortcut right. (0:33) If you have to run you have to run the number of kilometers, if you have to swim or you have to bike or you have to do a mountain trek you got to do it yourself so it just actually brings back a reminder of like yeah life is going to be hard and the only way to overcome these hardship is to follow this process of rigor, discipline, willpower, mental toughness.
Julian Hayes II
(1:03) Nikhil thank you so much for joining me and I would be remiss if I didn't start here because it's a city that was enjoyable for me when I went and so I saw that you're located in London so I'm curious what is your favorite thing about London?
Nikhil Arora
(1:21) My favorite thing about London is running in Hyde Park. (1:24) I am you know been an average runner and I think if you like long distance running you can actually manage up to doing 30 kilometers you know between Hyde Park and some of the other connections around the Hyde Park and just it has a beautiful vibe about it and there's so many runners running and so it's on a sunny day especially it's a great place.
Julian Hayes II
(1:49) Now I um sunny day I got lucky so I went to London at the end of December and spent the (1:56) new year there and everyone told me I was lucky and I told them maybe I brought the Tennessee (2:00) charm or something because it was actually sunny and it wasn't just dreary and gray and everything (2:06) I had I had a handful of sunny days and so I felt very lucky about that and so moving on (2:13) we're over halfway throughout the year now and I'm curious and I've been contemplating this myself (2:20) what are maybe one or two kind of just big aha moments or revelations that you've had this year (2:26) and these can be these can be personal or business leadership related it's whatever (2:30) direction you want to take that in?
Nikhil Arora
(2:35) I'll share both personal and you know leadership (2:40) you know on the personal front I think (2:42) um the you know the impact the current kind of world dynamics is having on a younger generation (2:51) is far deeper than I think anyone of us realize you know with so many kind of wars going on and (2:59) so many kind of geopolitical dynamics going on across the world right I think somehow we you (3:09) as we are more older or far along our life we kind of can process them much more (3:16) objectively and perhaps maturely I think the impact on perhaps the younger generation of (3:22) the ones who are just in college or getting out of college I think it's you know the impact on (3:29) them is far deeper than many of us realize right so it just puts an onus back on us (3:35) even at a leadership level that it's hard to differentiate what's happening in the world (3:41) versus our day-to-day personal life and business life and then so I think from a leadership point (3:47) of view what I would say is translates into maybe a holistic leadership model where in the past (3:54) you know you're responsible or you're kind of defined by the leadership within kind of the (4:01) constraints of your business or your organization I think that has now changed (4:07) and shifted that as a leader you're actually you can't control what's happening outside but (4:13) as a leader it's your responsibility to make sure that you know you're providing enough guidance (4:19) and you're acknowledging some of the geopolitical things happening because it does affect (4:24) employees and it does affect the workforce and that you're you know addressing it in a very
Julian Hayes II
(4:30) objective and transparent way yeah it seems that work it seems that work life is is very much (4:39) intertwined now where it seemed maybe during my parents and my parents were working they're (4:44) retired now that um you were able to separate it and you know what was at home and going outside (4:50) the work area was was fine but now it's all bleeding together and so I imagine that presents (4:57) a handful of new dynamics when it comes to leading a company and so you know with that notion in mind (5:03) what's what are maybe some adjustments that you've had to do in terms of your leadership style (5:09) to kind of match up to this more modern business world where everything is seemingly blended (5:14) together and all the events going on in the world like you mentioned one of the things that I always
Nikhil Arora
(5:21) believed and I learned from my dad was that you know kind of continuous learning and continuous (5:29) skilling is the only constant you can bet on on yourself and then and on the teams you lead right (5:37) so you know as a leader the first thing I always tend to emphasize for all my employees and for (5:47) myself and peers is that you know our ability to kind of succeed in what the world is now and (5:53) where it's heading towards is going to be our ability to learn unlearn and relearn right and (6:00) how we create those opportunities because the biggest source of engaging employees is learning (6:07) right recently world economic forum had come up with a survey that 90 percent of employers (6:14) have found out that employees will stay with the company if they're feeling they're growing in their (6:21) skill set higher than even their salary right I mean so the number one attribute for retention (6:26) engagement and so as a leader I think the onus on leaders is now to find and create (6:34) skilling opportunities for employees because they want to learn but perhaps sometimes they don't know (6:41) you know what are the skills for the future with with so much technology disruption with AI and (6:48) chat GPT and so on right so how do you break it down on bite-sized opportunities where it's people (6:56) can process it learn it and move along the curve and don't feel like they left they're left behind (7:01) right so this fear of feeling left behind with all this disruption is pretty high and as a leader (7:06) I think we can we can really take upon as one of the top objectives to ensure (7:13) no one is left behind as an employee in kind of learning and skilling and upskilling
Julian Hayes II
(7:20) and you mentioned your dad there and so I this gives me an opportunity to actually time travel (7:25) back to the past before we come back to this type of topic and so I'm curious when when you were (7:30) growing up and kind of what you're doing now will we be surprised at the work that you're doing right (7:36) now if we knew you as say a teenager you know the 20-20 hindsight is a wonderful thing right
Nikhil Arora
(7:46) Julian I now if if if you were to ask a person who knew me when I was growing up (7:56) they would say yeah perhaps I would end up being in kind of the world of learning and education (8:02) and in a world of purpose I think in the middle part of my life perhaps I didn't know that either (8:10) but I always had and you know in all credit to my dad right my dad was a big learner like if (8:16) if you gave him 12 books in a day he would read all 12 books in a day and the end of the day he (8:21) will you know talk with me and my sister about his learnings from those books right so we already (8:29) observed that of how those those learning and reading habits really helped him through difficult (8:39) time and so you know growing up you sometimes are trying to chase other things but you ultimately (8:47) come back to the core of you know what you're meant to be and I would say learning education (8:55) uh purpose-driven businesses uh wouldn't be a big surprise for to ask people who knew me
Julian Hayes II
(9:02) you know back from childhood yeah and I I definitely I definitely believe that because (9:08) you have a bookshelf behind you with a lot of books so I can see that that's really instilled (9:12) in as part of your uh personal ethos right there um so I saw that you have worked in nearly 20 (9:20) cities and at companies you know there's a lot of different companies but I'll name a few there's (9:24) GoDaddy, there's WeWork, there's Intuit um and uh there's Miramax films and and many many many others (9:32) and when someone has that many different types of companies and that many different types of cities (9:37) you're coming across so many different types of people and cultures and everything and so I'm (9:44) curious how has that type of experience you know influenced your leadership style right now and (9:50) also what have you just simply learned about people?
Nikhil Arora
(9:56) Travel is I think you know the best (9:59) university in the world right because you know when you're growing up you think the world is a (10:05) certain way you think people are a certain way you feel community that a certain way right you (10:10) have a very myopic view of a limited kind of geography of where you grow up right as you (10:19) travel as you work in different cities, different countries, different industries, (10:24) different cultures you started to realize that you know the depth and breadth of (10:31) uh the the kind of human potential is so enormous right because you certainly (10:38) the light bulb goes on to say hey the same thing is being done differently in a particular country (10:44) or the same thing is being done you know very innovatively in different country right so it (10:49) it really grounds you in a way and makes you very kind of humble in a way because you feel like you (10:56) know you grew up certain places and you learn certain things and that's the world and you (11:00) go somewhere else and you say 10 people are finding a better way to do it or a faster way (11:05) to do it and so you realize there's always this constant hunger to learn right and so (11:11) it kind of helped me get fast track on a growth mindset because anytime you're in a new country (11:18) a new city the degree of uncertainty is higher right you got to learn a new culture (11:23) new kind of new environment new way of doing things on the other end you also realize that (11:30) the basic values of humanity remain the same right people still want to have a good laugh (11:36) people love music people want to you know interact and kind of learn about your culture (11:43) and vice versa people want to explore you know things which they cannot travel to but they can (11:50) explore through interactions with you and so to me that shaped myself as as as what I call a global (11:58) nomad and so I you know I feel like I can now go to any place and have that (12:06) cultural grounding and sensitivity and awareness of learning first understanding first and then (12:14) kind of coming up with more kind of prescriptions or directions right so I think that's the biggest (12:21) learning I've got is like it just got me to the growth mindset of you know embrace the change but (12:28) ask before you prescribe learn before you you know kind of have conclusions and that can only (12:35) happen you know through kind of these cross cross-cultural interactions across the world
Julian Hayes II
(12:40) so now I have to give you the impossible question that you probably have been asked (12:43) a hundred times already what are maybe two or three of your favorite spots that you travel to
Nikhil Arora
(12:51) yeah India is always going to be in my heart because of you know born and brought up there so (12:59) it's always a part of me I would say Greece because yeah of course Greece has this natural (13:08) beauty and all the blue oceans but I think the culture there is quite rich the history is quite (13:14) deep and the philosophy of the country is amazing right about teaching about life and humanity (13:20) and so I've you know I've really really fallen in love with Greece as kind of almost my second home (13:28) and I love the cultural environment and just of the way people operate based on relationships (13:34) based on deep philosophies and also good kind of work-life balance and then the U.S. always I (13:44) believe from an innovation point of view you know from creating product innovation creating (13:51) kind of being the first leader of many many you know good innovations to come out of the world (13:57) and the way it kind of teaches and educates people to be successful entrepreneurs I think (14:04) you know there's the level of innovation the level of speed velocity of kind of both successes and (14:11) failure is so high that it's a it's a great teacher you know to the ecosystem around the world
Julian Hayes II
(14:17) and I think I know the answer to this because I'm noticing something here (14:22) but I'm curious so your current position now is the CEO at Epignosis and also can be known as (14:30) Talent Elements to my understanding and what attracted you to the position?
Nikhil Arora
(14:39) I believe in a you know in a saying right you know like Rumi has a very famous saying you know what you seek is seeking you and so I think it's you know for me at this stage of my career I wanted to A, work in a very meaningful and purpose-driven industry which obviously skilling and learning is. (15:03) Two, which has kind of a worldwide reach so Epignosis, Talent Elements (15:10) we are in 158 countries focused on small and medium-sized businesses which has been (15:17) kind of very close to my heart because I've worked very closely with SMBs around the world (15:23) and you know has a great kind of cultural DNA to it and and when it's a cultural DNA their (15:32) employees their customers their investors shareholders and so when I added up all (15:37) these attributes through my learning process and through my interactions I just felt like you know (15:43) this this is going to be this is going to be a good home because it kind of combines you know (15:48) what I call a missionary and a mercenary approach because missionary is all-purpose mercenary is (15:57) about how do you build a scalable successful profitable business and I think I thrive on (16:03) when there's both a missionary and a mercenary part and and with all these attributes I was I was (16:10) kind of blown away by the opportunity what lies ahead and you know what we can do for the world (16:16) in the space of learning.
Julian Hayes II
(16:19) Yeah and so the world is becoming more and more digital and I think (16:23) already I saw just from some gathering up some things here I think I saw that you guys had (16:28) 12,000 customers 2020 or 22 million users and then across the 158 countries that you mentioned (16:35) and with the world becoming more digital now and this is a there's an opportunity to really (16:41) revolutionize the e-learning landscape and so I'm curious kind of what's your big vision for that (16:48) and where do you see this going?
Nikhil Arora
(16:51) Our vision is to you know be the you know the (16:57) unlocking global potential basically right if you think about (17:02) we are powering technology to unlock global potential and what global potential is through (17:09) skilling upskilling reskilling and at every employee level at every individual level (17:18) if you ask anybody you know what is the number one aspiration they have (17:22) you know they want to grow and they want to grow through acquiring new skills or enhancing existing (17:28) skills or sometimes unlearning skills which no longer are relevant in the current world right (17:36) and I think we are sitting at the center of that wonderful opportunity to make a meaningful (17:42) difference to all the 22 million users we have and another 100 million users who are out there (17:49) who are still not engaged with us to really transform their lives if you think about a (17:57) customer audience right the small medium-sized businesses SMBs are time constraint and money (18:04) constraint right because of the nature of SMB they have only a limited bandwidth of what they can do (18:12) and because of the nature of SMB you know the access to capital and the focus on (18:19) conserving cash is very important to them right and what we do is we provide a (18:25) easy to use solution which basically solves the time constraint problem because our solution is (18:31) very much very low touch easy to onboard easy to kind of you know start and using day one within (18:40) a matter of you know hours and then also it's very affordable so it solves the money constraint (18:47) problem for SMBs right so we want to really transform the lives of small businesses (18:53) through unlocking this potential of their employees through skilling upskilling and (18:58) re-skilling and if you look at the global economy right majority of global economies are (19:07) dependent on SMBs and if SMBs grow the GDP grows and GDP grows you know the whole (19:12) kind of the world economy around the world you know around different countries starts kind of (19:17) growing.
Julian Hayes II
(19:19) Now I know you mentioned time and money what are maybe some other I would say maybe deficiencies or misnomers when it comes to learning and development and companies integrating this within their culture in a meaningful way and actually effective way.
Nikhil Arora
(19:42) So one of them is you know how easy it is to kind of use the product because (19:51) it's one thing that I want to learn the other thing is how do I learn right if I take (19:55) a particular course or I learn a particular piece of content how simple easy (20:05) and memorable can I make from an experience point of view right and so our product (20:12) we have customers who have actually never ever spoken to us you know they discovered our product (20:19) they signed on for the product they're using the product their employees are using the product (20:24) and you know we get a very solid NPS from them right which speaks to the product itself that (20:31) you know a successful product never should actually require any human touch right because (20:36) somebody adopts it uses it and you know kind of recommends to other and gave us a very high kind (20:44) of rating right and so that's one thing I would say about Talent LMS. The other one is also the (20:51) depth and breadth of content right so we today have a talent library which has over a thousand courses (20:59) for people to select you know when they subscribe to our Talent LMS product right (21:06) and these courses are both business courses and also a personal development right things like (21:12) mindfulness, mental wellness or business things about AI about sales enablement you know how do (21:21) we make a career in customer service and so I think having that balance of personal and professional (21:28) content is important because as every employee they want to do both right they want to be a (21:34) better employee with more skills and also a better human being which gives them more happiness and (21:40) joy you know the mind body spirit analogy and so I think those two would be kind of the other (21:48) attributes I would add to what I talked previously about time and kind of money.
Julian Hayes II
(21:55) Yeah and as the company grows how do you recommend leaders to not sacrifice culture and quality as they start to grow?
Nikhil Arora
(22:10) You know the famous saying of culture eats strategy any day I think you know at the heart of heart of business if you look at you know what is a business right business is made out of made up of people and people thrive in a good culture. (22:28) The more happier they are the more productive they would be and the more engaged and fired up they would be the more unhappy they are the more they will feel like a burden to do the job or show up at work right. (22:46) So I think creating this culture of starting with the culture of purpose starting with the culture of engaging employees through a very kind of well-defined mission and vision you know the old good old north star principle right that great employees create great products for the customers which ultimately creates a great shareholder value right.
(23:13) So starting with employees and you know creating this culture of kind of positivity, accountability, high engagement, high growth velocity and kind of bringing that all together in a way where we all are collectively you know bigger than the sum of each other right. (23:37) So one plus one has to be greater than two and I think that's where the leadership comes in that's where the company vision mission comes in because none of us wake up in the morning say I'm going to make more money with my product today right. (23:48) That's an output where if we wake up and just say okay how many people am I going to scale today right.
(23:53) How many people's life can I change through my you know learning platform and that's the difference between I would say a culture of a company versus just having a transactional business.
Julian Hayes II
(24:05) Mm-hmm and speaking of speaking of culture right now probably one of the biggest things that every leader is probably debating and hearing about all the time is this thing of remote hybrid or full on-site. (24:24) How are you how are you approaching that and handling it and also when you talk to other other different CEOs and leaders are you hearing that this is a thing that all of them are being affected by and having to debate and kind of juggle and wrestle with?
Nikhil Arora
(24:43) Absolutely I think it's a global issue across small, medium, large enterprises right because kind of pre and post-covid a lot of things changed and hence this debate is also rightfully irrelevant. (25:01) My view is again you know it's not one size fits all. (25:06) It depends on the business you are in, the locations you're in, the life cycle you're in and what are you trying to create right.
(25:18) Now certain businesses you need to have people come together because you know they need to collaborate, they need to innovate, they need to produce you know things which can only be done through more of human interactions and some businesses it's very automated right. (25:36) It's more like things are pretty much I would say on a steady state basis and all there all that needs to be done is more of you know a better velocity or better speed right. (25:52) So to each its own, I believe a hybrid workforce (25:57) is perhaps where the model of the future will be because it gives you a balance of (26:04) both flexibility but also the opportunity to learn from your peers and also work with your (26:14) peers and develop relationships with your peers right because at the heart of it we are all (26:19) humans and we thrive on building relationships, we succeed on building relationships, (26:25) we create innovation through relationships and having that kind of in-person time (26:33) you know there is no substitute for that right.
(26:36) The frequency of that again is company by company, (26:39) industry by industry and you know otherwise I think the risk of not being together for a long (26:49) time can actually diminish your growth as an individual as well because you know I'm going (26:55) to meet you, I'm going to talk to you, I'm going to exchange some ideas, let's experiment a few things (27:01) you know that's the human interaction and then hey now we've succeeded in the experiment, (27:06) let's scale it up, maybe that doesn't need a lot of interaction, we can do it you know more (27:11) remotely. (27:12) So all three models are out there and my take is I think the world will more get closer to a hybrid model.
Julian Hayes II
(27:23) Yeah I was also thinking just and I'm not sure if this is true (27:27) but it just seems like for those who are seeking mentoring, who are seeking to really develop their (27:33) skills and maybe grow from maybe into a possible seat sweep position or something like that, that (27:40) you need that in-person element to where the coaching and development can happen more and I'm (27:45) not sure if and I'd like to hear your thoughts if that element of coaching and mentoring is as (27:51) effective when it's just full remote as opposed to being in person.
(27:55) What do you think about that?
Nikhil Arora
(27:57) Personally for me, I mean I would never substitute in-person through remote right because I feel for me kind of getting the mentoring, getting the insights, ability to have a very fluid dialogue in person, getting the full attention because you know in an attention deficit world you know being in person is a lot more focused than perhaps sometimes being you know online. (28:30) So I and all my if I look back on what have been my successful opportunities to learn from people by far in person have been you know have been much more impactful and powerful than being kind of online.
Julian Hayes II
(28:49) Yeah and the next thing here we're kind of going to pivot topics a little bit and as I was researching you, I saw that you are quite the fitness enthusiast who does a lot of different fitness activities. (29:02) So I'm curious where did this passion and likening for pretty tough fitness events, where was it birthed from and come from?
Nikhil Arora
(29:15) In school I was quite active and then you know then I think life took over and then (29:21) I think maybe you know a decade and a half ago or something in my travels as I was moving cities you (29:29) know I realized one of the cities I you know I kind of started getting unhealthy, you know picked (29:37) up some weight, my health stats were not looking good, the energy energy levels were down and you (29:44) know I'm like I started kind of thinking about I'm like 10 years older than I should be at least (29:50) based on my health stats and that was like an aha moment and and I started experimenting with (29:59) running as kind of the first activity and you know what I realized was that until you do something (30:07) hard labor well-earned, you don't complete your own kind of growth (30:15) runway which you could potentially do because you know there is the professional side of things, (30:23) so there's the academic side of things but this is a place you have to put in the hours, (30:28) there is no shortcut. (30:30) If you have to run, you have to run the number of kilometers if you have to swim or if you have to bike or you have to do a mountain trek, you got to do it yourself.
(30:39) So it just actually brings back a reminder of like yeah life is (30:45) going to be hard and the only way to overcome these hardship is to follow this process of (30:52) rigor, discipline, willpower, mental toughness and to me it started as a physical (31:00) activity but it really became more of a kind of a holistic mental, physical, psychological (31:08) and to some extent even a meditative activity and this growth mindset (31:16) from early days observing my parents was also that the minute I would start feeling (31:20) comfortable like I started doing running, half marathons, full marathons and I'm like I'm (31:25) getting comfortable, how do I keep pushing myself? (31:29) So that's when I started experimenting (31:31) with triathlons and Ironman and the guiding principle here was that never get comfortable (31:39) in your achievements or your milestones because the world changes so fast and so for me (31:47) these activities of course in addition to the physical benefits but I think it's more outside (31:52) of that it kind of keeps the guiding principle of willpower, discipline, pushing yourself (32:01) and really reminding yourself that nothing happens unless you put in the hours here.
Julian Hayes II
(32:08) I could not agree further. (32:10) I am a recent individual who started to pick up endurance maybe a few years ago. (32:16) I was normally just weightlifting, boxing, more explosive type of (32:20) things and the difference is to me when like you said when you're running you really find out (32:25) about yourself because you can't really skip that process and a lot of times it's painful and can (32:31) sometimes be boring and but you really learn about yourself and so I've really and you get a lot of (32:37) ideas when you're just out there for a couple hours so and kind of like you once you do like (32:42) a half marathon, did a marathon, you're like okay what's next? (32:45) So now I'm doing an ultra marathon, can't do the triathlon yet because my swimming is really not there so I have a long ways to go before that and so I'm curious now I saw maybe a few years ago you mentioned something about building teams and marathon training and how it's not that different and so I would love to expound on that notion a little more.
Nikhil Arora
(33:11) You know it's great to hear about your running and I can promise you you'll be doing triathlon soon. (33:17) I did not know swimming till maybe seven, eight years until I signed up for an Ironman not knowing how to swim because I signed on to say that this will force me to learn swimming right. (33:32) I was the guy who would go into the pool and just hang out and have fun right nothing more and then you learn swimming in the pool and then oh that that's not good enough because now you have to swim in a lake or ocean because all these triathlons happen there right.
(33:46) So it was a joy in itself but I'm just sharing with you because you'll get there very fast, a lot faster than you realize but coming back to your question on marathons and running right. (33:59) So running it's a wonderful sport because (34:03) you got to run right, there's nobody who can run for you so it is creating that kind of (34:11) rigor, discipline, willpower of doing things on your own because when you're running you're running (34:17) and it's only your legs and your willpower and your body but it also combines group training (34:24) that you get in you know you have five, six of you get together I'm going to you know train on a (34:30) Saturday morning and let's go for a long run and you know do 10, 15, 20k and it's building that (34:36) team spirit and building you know how you can motivate others. (34:41) So that way when you're in a group you're motivating others you know the people who are far along the skill set can bring others along, they cannot do the work for them right.
(34:51) So from a leadership point of view (34:54) you can't do the work but you can show them the way, you can share your story, you can (35:00) you know share your lessons and to many that's good enough right and so that's the beauty of (35:06) running it combines both your individual growth and development because you got to do it on your (35:11) own at the end of the day but it brings in the leadership side of things that if you do it in (35:16) a group that you have ability to develop the leadership you know attributes.
(35:21) So for me later (35:22) on I started pacing you know so any events I would become a pacer for first-time runners (35:27) because that was also a way for me to test how can I become a better leader because you know you (35:33) come in an event you're pacing a certain time right so let's say people are doing a half (35:38) marathon and you're pacing two hours now all these 10 people join your kind of your cohort (35:44) it's your responsibility you're pacing them through you're making sure and what are the (35:48) right water spots, when do we do speed up, when you're at a slow down but what you can't do is (35:54) run for them and at some time you have to take difficult calls to okay you know one other person (35:59) is not going to make it and so you give them the encouragement but you keep moving along right.
(36:04) So those facets are just amazing you know to kind of draw to leadership where you can develop yourself so much and find yourself so much to your earlier point.
Julian Hayes II
(36:16) Yeah that's such a great point (36:18) that's such a great point and I think it's the pacing as well and I think that's such a good (36:22) such a good life metaphor because a lot of times I think I know I've been guilty of this that (36:27) you really want to rush success or you want to rush getting there wherever there is for you (36:34) and I hear it I heard it somewhere and it stuck with me that it's almost like baking a cake as (36:38) well that if it calls for a recipe at a certain temperature but you try to turn it up more so it (36:42) can get there quicker you're going to mess the whole process up and I learned this with running (36:46) when I first started running I was running like I was sprinting like I was doing sprints (36:51) and so I would start off blazing and then I would just completely crash so I had to really (36:58) I had to learn how to run for endurance and it's like because I mostly I have very long legs (37:04) and so I had to learn how to shorten my stride and all these little basic elementary things but (37:10) once I did that the world opened up for me and I kind of see it sounds like leadership is kind (37:15) of like that as well there's these very small little nuances that you learn and it really makes (37:20) a big difference and so to bring this into a big picture what are what would you say are some (37:27) common cultural building mistakes that leaders may unfortunately make?
Nikhil Arora
(37:37) I think first is I think (37:42) never underestimate the power of a vision and a mission right because (37:47) it has to be big bold aspirational motivational something bigger than (37:55) ourselves as humans and sometimes it's can be construed as oh yeah this is just a very (38:03) academic exercise but no it's not right you got to inspire people through a big bold (38:11) mission and vision and then you have to make sure they're carriers of that mission vision (38:17) across the organization right because it's as good as a statement on a powerpoint or on a (38:23) flowchart if it's not being lived by right so making sure that every day every employee which (38:31) is coming to work is reminded and excited and motivated by what are we doing to the world (38:38) why do we exist as a company right I think like as a leader you know I would say three big things (38:45) right like one is make sure everybody knows why do we exist in the world and how does it matter (38:51) second is how do we all work together and that's really the culture and the first principles and (38:57) and the values right and how are we going to you know make the money which is unit economics right (39:04) because if in your business then you have you know your metrics to achieve right and kind of (39:11) bringing all these three aspects together I think is kind of on one level very simplistic (39:17) but the other level very complex and a lot of organizations sometimes kind of over index on (39:23) one versus the other it's always a you know there's always a balance where all three needs to (39:29) kind of work in tandem for a successful you know organization one other thing I'll add is also the (39:36) process is always more important than the output you know you're from sports background and you (39:43) you listen to the best of the best and they will all talk about it's the daily process it's the (39:50) daily process you know the the end result happens to be an output and the same thing applies in the (39:56) business that you have a north star but what matters is what process are you following every (40:06) day and not getting fixated on this north star like number or some metric every day right that's (40:12) that just happens to be the output but what are you doing in the input and input is all around (40:17) the process and if you're putting in the time you're putting in the effort and you're making (40:22) sure your process is improving the output will anyway be be wonderful right so process is a lot (40:28) more important you know it's the daily one percent improvement principle right how are you improving (40:33) every day on the process and which is ultimately leading to like 300 times more improvement over
Julian Hayes II
(40:39) the year and one of the things here I saw is that some of the philanthropic work that you did and so (40:46) what what led you to get involved with caregiver share so you know from my personal experiences I
Nikhil Arora
(40:54) had you know my parents go through you know dementia alzheimer's parkinson's and one of the (41:00) things I I learned early on was that while there was a lot of support I would say at a medical (41:09) level but at a family level right if you're a caregiver as a family member you kind of get lost (41:16) because you're trying to do your best but and you know in these cases it's not like it's it's a (41:23) medical illness which which can be reversed right and so as a family caregiver I realized that you (41:31) know building a community of kind of caregivers who can share their experiences because the best (41:38) you can do is share your experiences because it can help somebody going through a similar journey (41:44) at some point of time in a different country and the more I spoke to people when I was sharing my (41:49) journey I realized so many people are going through this you know as we age I mean our parents get (41:55) older and just kind of things get you know kind of these things catch up and so it's not like (42:03) it's not going to happen more likely it happens majority of the time and so how can we create this (42:08) community where people are just sharing these things work for me to keep myself also you know (42:16) balanced because a lot of time caregiving is a very toxic journey and sometimes you can lose (42:22) yourself in it and so my vision mission is just to you know bring these various inspirational (42:28) motivational stories of various caregivers so and it keeps inspiring other caregivers to say (42:34) you know this is there's more more purpose to it it's difficult but you know here's how others
Julian Hayes II
(42:40) have done it and maybe you can learn from them as well yeah it's a it's a very emotionally it can be (42:47) very emotionally taxing because I went through it with my father so to it can be a very taxing (42:52) process and and so it's it's good that you're doing that so I saw that it was a tweet a long (43:00) time ago that you did it was Shane Watson and I'm learning more about cricket players because I (43:05) interviewed a coach in that aspect and he wrote the book Winning the Inner Battle and you tweeted (43:11) that you are never moving the needle on success if you've never won the inner battle so I'm curious (43:19) how do you manage and win your inner battle on a daily basis?
Nikhil Arora
(43:26) Shane's a wonderful wonderful (43:28) friend and a brilliant you know cricketer and you know the other one which I had the pleasure of (43:35) working with was the former India captain MS Tony if you ever kind of search him up he's (43:42) he's one of the biggest the sport has ever produced and you know with Shane and through (43:48) some of the other you know I've had the opportunity to talk to a few sports people and also a few (43:58) spiritual philosophers and so on just to kind of keep the learning of about your own self right and (44:04) and and the reality is all of us carry our inner battles I think the first thing is to accept it (44:10) because I think when we are younger we kind of put them under the cover you want to deal with it (44:15) because there's just so much happening out there right and so I think first thing is (44:20) acknowledging and acceptance which also is looking back at your own journey all the way (44:26) from childhood to adulthood to experiences you've had maybe the parents with your friends (44:33) with other relationships and kind of recognizing your the up and down moments like if you if you (44:41) draw a journey line of what were the inflection points either which took you high or brought you (44:46) low it will give you a pattern of your inner battles and and what kind of maybe scars one would (44:55) have gotten from certain you know type of experiences right once you have an understanding of (45:02) that then it's about you know spending time by yourself dealing with them because nobody will be (45:11) able to solve it for you and that's where you know things like meditation are very very helpful (45:17) because you're kind of connecting with your thoughts things like even yoga is wonderful (45:26) because it's all about breathing and if you think about what breathing does it brings you back in (45:33) the present because the only thing which is here is your breathing and it's just keeping you alive (45:39) and brings you back to focus and so you know I do a lot of reflections of on a daily basis (45:49) weekly basis I you know look at patterns of my own behavior which sometimes the good ones (45:57) and sometimes not the good ones and be very objective in analyzing yourself as a third (46:04) party like if I was talking to my own self as somebody else and I'm observing and giving it (46:09) same advice there's a lot you can uncover from that right and so I think it's learning to like (46:18) just address and take yourself head on and looking at both your kind of the past patterns (46:25) and how they're influencing you know your kind of current behavior and what do you want to change
Julian Hayes II
(46:30) what you don't want to change and the last question that I have for you here is someone (46:37) walks up to you in a coffee shop and they ask you what are three things that I can do today (46:44) to become a better leader what would you tell them the first and the most important thing is
Nikhil Arora
(46:56) you got to be a very people-centric leader which means leadership is about (47:05) both being bored and being kind and kindness doesn't mean weakness and bored doesn't mean (47:11) being overly ambitious right and so I think always overestimate the power of (47:19) how much you can motivate employees because you have a story and employees have a story and (47:26) you as a leader can bring all these stories together and really you know kind of bring (47:31) them to a level you can far imagine right so making sure you're you're starting with people (47:36) first second is I talk about you know fall in love with your customer's problem not your own solution (47:43) which essentially when you're in a business you have identified a problem you want to solve (47:49) but a lot of time you get fixated on the product you have created to solve it right or the service (47:54) you have created to solve it and that product or service may be great or it may fail but the (48:02) the problem you've identified is is the right problem right so having that obsession fixation on (48:10) problem solving for the customer is very important because it doesn't happen as much as you think it (48:16) would we all we are obsessed by our part our solution and we feel like that's the right (48:21) solution right and the last one is I think you know the job of a leader is to kind of create a (48:29) big bold strategy build shared consciousness around the organization but remove barriers (48:36) like we tend to sometimes create greatness in people you know I believe all of us have (48:41) been born with some sort of a great skill set or unique you know kind of skill we all have (48:49) and we don't we don't need to create greatness among people what we need to do is create the (48:54) right process create the right opportunity remove the roadblocks for people to do the best work of (48:58) their lives right and so that's where I feel like the leaders come in right around unlocking the (49:04) potential through breaking down barriers and really letting people do what they're good at (49:10) and many people are good at a lot of things but they get stuck in the process or sometimes the
Julian Hayes II
(49:15) environment and that is a fantastic way to wrap a nice bow on this conversation Nikhil thank you (49:22) so much for joining me I really enjoyed this conversation especially the talking the aspects (49:26) of of the running and everything and if I ever find myself to London I'm going to hit you up and (49:32) we will definitely hopefully if you if you will grace me with your presence go for a run in the
Nikhil Arora
(49:37) park and it'll be great to do that and we we certainly hope maybe you'll be signing up for (49:45) the London marathon in not too far distance future oh yeah I forgot about that I need to check the
Julian Hayes II
(49:50) dates on that that's not a bad idea where can where can listeners viewers just learn more about
Nikhil Arora
(49:56) you and your company and and everything that's going on there so our you know talentlms.com is (50:04) our you know website and epignosishq.com is our kind of company level website so please go to (50:14) these websites and you get a lot of information on that on a personal basis I'm active on LinkedIn (50:22) and I'm kind of semi-active on Instagram I tend to post more you know life and leadership (50:30) aspects there and so nikhilarora.official is my Instagram handle and LinkedIn you can find it up (50:37) at nikhilarora.official and we do check out our products you know we we allow you to use our (50:48) product for free and so even if you're an individual learner you can just come on talent (50:52) lms.com and you know try something and see how it works for you I can promise you you'll come out
Julian Hayes II
(51:00) as a better more skilled person and that's awesome to hear and I will have all that in the show notes (51:06) in case somebody is running biking or any other activity or just driving right now so until next (51:12) time listeners out there stay awesome be limitless and as always go be the ceo of your health and (51:16) your life.
